Can You Empower Claws of the Beast?

[wildstarsreach]

No power or spell states what damage is explicitly empowerable. That determination is made from the description of Empower Spell or Empower Power.

The power does however explicitly state that the damage of the claws is D4 + Strength.

It does not state that the damage of the claws is D4. And oh by the way, you can add strength like always to a natural attack.

The damage is D4 + Strength as per the power. Hence by RAW, that is what is Empowerable. Not just the D4.

All melee weapon damage is whatever d of damage plus strength. You must not assume that strength is empowerable. The power is still only d4. They state strength to reiterate that strength is added. I do not assume more that what the power gives. All natural weapons are also plus strength damage.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Can I get a clarification?

It looks as if everyone is assuming that the empower would only apply to the "1d4" listed in the power description. Yet empower has been clarified to include any static bonus also listed in the spell/power description (like pseudo-caster level, for instance in Burning Hands). Is not Strength listed? Would it not also be included in the empowered part?

IOW:

Empowered = (1d4 + Str) * 150%

I believe that strength is only stated to reiterate standard melee adds. If there is no strength, it is still only d4 or whatever augments times 1.5. Otherwise, I would go with Hypersmuf's rule of thumb and not allow this power to be empowered.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Not if it did electricity damage (without a metamagic feat applied to it).

In that case, it depends on the wording. How are you changing the fireball to do elecrticity damage w/o using a metamagic feat? Do you have an example spell/power? Only thing I can think of is Energy Ball from XPH. And Energy Ball will always be Energy Ball (the same power) no matter what energy type you select.

 

[RigaMortus2]

You must not assume that strength is empowerable.

KD is not assuming that it is. KD is just reading the RAW. He even said that he doesn't think it should be, even though read by pure RAW, it would be.

 

[wildstarsreach]

KD is not assuming that it is. KD is just reading the RAW. He even said that he doesn't think it should be, even though read by pure RAW, it would be.

Okay, my assumption is to assume that the printing is being redundant in stating that they add strength to the power. I do not assume that empower would increase strength damage as well.

 

[Nail]

Okay, my assumption is to assume that the printing is being redundant in stating that they add strength to the power.

But you often add other things to the damage roll when making a natural attack, like an enhancement bonus or a sneak attack or a combat feat. Why are these not stated explicitly?

The power goes on to say that the Claws of the Beast can be affected by anything that would affect natural attacks. Strength is one of those things....so why is it called out in the previous line's description, since this "effects line" covers it?

The most consistant conclusion, one that does not depend on suposition, is that the stength is added as part of the power's damage, and therefore is empowerable (just like caster level, etc.).

What is empowerable? The variable numeric effect listed in the spell that is not a simple repetition of already established rules. For Claws of the Beast (for a medium caster, unaugmented) that is (1d4 * Strength) * 150%, as the inclusion of Strength in damage is not a simple repetition.

 

[Infiniti2000]

What is empowerable? The variable numeric effect listed in the spell that is not a simple repetition of already established rules.

Wait a minute. Why isn't "+ STR modifier" a simple repetition?

 

[wildstarsreach]

But you often add other things to the damage roll when making a natural attack, like an enhancement bonus or a sneak attack or a combat feat. Why are these not stated explicitly?

The power goes on to say that the Claws of the Beast can be affected by anything that would affect natural attacks. Strength is one of those things....so why is it called out in the previous line's description, since this "effects line" covers it?

The most consistant conclusion, one that does not depend on suposition, is that the stength is added as part of the power's damage, and therefore is empowerable (just like caster level, etc.).

What is empowerable? The variable numeric effect listed in the spell that is not a simple repetition of already established rules. For Claws of the Beast (for a medium caster, unaugmented) that is (1d4 * Strength) * 150%, as the inclusion of Strength in damage is not a simple repetition.

You are assuming I think more than should be. If strength is added, then shouldn't any other adds be given, Weapon spec, pluses of a battlefist if worn, sneak attack!!

I think that the empower should only be to the base dice of damage, then add strength.

All melee I agree states to add strength to all melee attacks. With off hand usually giving only half the strength bonus without regards to the exception given in the power description.

 

[Nail]

Wait a minute. Why isn't "+ STR modifier" a simple repetition?

Because it's in the sentence with the damage die, just as caster level (etc) is in other spells.

 

[Nail]

You are assuming I think more than should be. If strength is added, then shouldn't any other adds be given, Weapon spec, pluses of a battlefist if worn, sneak attack!!

I've explained why above.