Can you flank with a non-ally?

[RigaMortus2]

Would now be a good time to ask if a "flanking bonus" is essentially the same thing as flanking? Are they seperate things, a "flanking bonus" and being "flanked"?

And, can you flank with a ranged weapon? I know you wouldn't get a flanking bonus, that is only if you make a melee attack

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus...

But let's say I am 10 feet away from an opponent, and I have a bow out, and the opponent is being threatened by a character or creature friendly to me on the opponent's opposite border... Is he still considered flanked? I am not making a melee attack, so I don't get the +2 flanking bonus.... BUT, all other criteria match, right?

 

[Jhulae]

Would now be a good time to ask if a "flanking bonus" is essentially the same thing as flanking? Are they seperate things, a "flanking bonus" and being "flanked"?

And, can you flank with a ranged weapon? I know you wouldn't get a flanking bonus, that is only if you make a melee attack



But let's say I am 10 feet away from an opponent, and I have a bow out, and the opponent is being threatened by a character or creature friendly to me on the opponent's opposite border... Is he still considered flanked? I am not making a melee attack, so I don't get the +2 flanking bonus.... BUT, all other criteria match, right?

Ranged attacks don't threaten, one reason why someone armed with a ranged weapon cannot make an attack of opportunity.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ranged attacks don't threaten, one reason why someone armed with a ranged weapon cannot make an attack of opportunity.

Note that it's the creature friendly to you who is required to threaten the opponent...

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

Note that it's the creature friendly to you who is required to threaten the opponent...

-Hyp.

I'm lost again! Why do we need DMs?

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm lost again! Why do we need DMs?

To run the adventure and enforce the rules... or to change the rules if he feels they do not make sense, but always making the players aware of this ahead of time...

 

[RigaMortus2]

Now I just have to convince my DM to read the rules literally so I can make a ranged-based Rogue so I can Sneak Attack w/ a bow via flanking... Not sure he'll go for it tough, may have to plead my case (he's more of a "spirit of the rules" kinda DM, hard to get one by him ).

 

[mvincent]

Now I just have to convince my DM to read the rules literally so I can make a ranged-based Rogue so I can Sneak Attack w/ a bow via flanking

The rules say:
"The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

So you could get a flank bonus when say, using a whip, but a rogue would you would need to be the one flanking in order to get sneak damage.

Note, as written: a rogue could threaten someone with say, armor spikes, in order to sneak attack them using a ranged weapon. This would usually be sub-optimal (i.e. the rogue wouldn't get the flank bonus and would provoke an AoO), but it could allow say, easy sneak attacking with acid vials (using TWF'ing and rapid shot even). This is against RAI, but not RAW.

 

[RigaMortus2]

The rules say:
"The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

So you could get a flank bonus when say, using a whip, but a rogue would you would need to be the one flanking in order to get sneak damage.

Ok, that's a good point... So it doesn't matter (for Sneak Attack) if the target is flanked, it matters if the Rogue is the one flanking the target. Makes sense.

But how do you know if the Rogue is flanking the target or not?

When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

Such a line could be traced if the ranged Rogue is 10 or more feet away from the target, with a friendly creature on it's opposite side. So does that mean a Rogue would be flanking it's target after all?

 

[mvincent]

how do you know if the Rogue is flanking the target or not?

She must both threaten and have another attacker on the opposite side of her opponent.

 

[Nail]

She must both threaten and have another attacker on the opposite side of her opponent.

Where does it say she must threaten?