can you meta magic wands?

[Darklone]

Hmm, I gotta trick my players into building commandword activated items... which will go off as soon as the villain simply speaks the word 5 times per round.

Fireball, fireball, fireball,fireball, deaaaaad!

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

-Hyp.

Drat it - I keep finding the arguements to my statements to be true (quite frustrating!)


So let me ask you this then - the only activation method that can bypass the standard action restriction is indeed the use-activation method.

The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.
Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.

So activating a 'use-activated' magic item does not require a standard action? I.E. Pointing the twig of thunderbolt at the enemy to launch a thunderbolt is not a standard action, right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So let me ask you this then - the only activation method that can bypass the standard action restriction is indeed the use-activation method.

No. The general rule is that activating an item is a standard action... unless the power replicates a spell... unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

So a Ring of the Ram - which doesn't replicate a spell effect - requires a standard action. A Crystal Ball - which does replicate a spell effect, Scrying, and which doesn't state otherwise - requires an hour to activate. A Scroll of Quickened Cure Light Wounds - which replicates a spell effect - is a free action, since nothing in the item description of scrolls contradicts the general rule. A Wand of Quickened Ray of Frost is a standard action to activate, because although it's replicating a spell effect, the item description specifically states "otherwise".

-Hyp.

 

[MerakSpielman]

So I'll take a free action to use my wand of quickened magic missiles. Hmm, it didn't die? I think I'll take a second free action to use my wand. A third. A fourth. I'm getting impressed, but I still have free actions!

Checking to see how wounded the creature is isn't a free action.
Also from the 3.5 SRD:

Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

Emphasis mine. I think the implication of this is that if the DM thinks you're doing something unreasonable by taking too many free actions in a round, then you are in violation of the rules.

-​

There is a stated limit (we all agree) that you can only cast one quickened spell per round. People are trying to get around this by quickening a spell into a wand and saying it's not really a spell any more so the rule doesn't apply. That line of reasoning might be in line with the rules as written (debatable), but certainly isn't following the spirit of what the designers obviously intended.

scroll of a Quickened spell can be activated as a free action.

but you still have to take a move-equivelent action to pull the scroll out of your pocket (remember, Quickdraw only applies to weapons). Even if you're allowed multiple quickened spells on a scroll, and even if your DM rules they don't count under the "one quickened spell per round" rule, you still won't get more than 3 per round off this way.

...fifty wands of magic missile, strap them all together in a bundle, and claim they all go off at once when he speaks the word.

They can try it, sure. Just like they can try strapping three swords together and claiming they now do 3 times more damage when they hit. I think it is pretty easy to say that, except in rare circumstances (bucklers for instance), only one item can be held in a hand at any given time.

 

[Hypersmurf]

but you still have to take a move-equivelent action to pull the scroll out of your pocket (remember, Quickdraw only applies to weapons).

That's arguable in 3.5.

QUICK DRAW [GENERAL]
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action.

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

-----

So does Quick Draw refer to "draw a weapon" as "retrieve a weapon from a sheathe", or "perform the Draw a Weapon action"?

If the second, then Quick Draw can certainly be used to produce a wand as a free action, and perhaps a conveniently-stored scroll.

If the first, then no wands or scrolls.

-Hyp.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Hmmm... I think if that was what was intended by Quick Draw, they would have been a little more specific in the feat description. I see your point though.

 

[dcollins]

I agree with the line of reasoning that prevents free-action Quickened wands. I'll also address the other question to customer service:

"Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand."

No other magic items are mentioned in that passage, so I'm curious; Can you no longer craft wondrous items with spells using metamagic feats? If you can, would the activation time of a wondrous item using a quickened spell be a free action?

For starters, note that this is the exact same language as in the 3.0 rules -- nothing has changed. And once again, this is another reflection of the fact that only the spell storage-magic-items have rules supporting them being designed by PCs (i.e., spell powers tailored by PCs). Only the potion/scroll/wand category has: (a) the general choice of which spells to put in them, (b) formalized pricing rules in the pages of the PHB, (c) rules explicitly supporting that the creator can select whatever Caster Level they desire, and (d) language that allows the crafter to add any arbitrary Metamagic Feat to them.

The rules are written such that all other items, such as Wondrous Items, et. al., are fixed with the descriptions/powers/prices/caster levels/prerequisites that are detailed in the DMG or other official rulebooks. Metamagic wondrous items are possible only on a case-by-case basis (new ones house-ruled by the DM), and if so the need for any metamagic feat will be listed in their prerequisites description. At least as far as the current written rules are set up.

The usual link for newcomers: www.superdan.net/dndfaq3.html

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

No. The general rule is that activating an item is a standard action... unless the power replicates a spell... unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

So a Ring of the Ram - which doesn't replicate a spell effect - requires a standard action. A Crystal Ball - which does replicate a spell effect, Scrying, and which doesn't state otherwise - requires an hour to activate. A Scroll of Quickened Cure Light Wounds - which replicates a spell effect - is a free action, since nothing in the item description of scrolls contradicts the general rule. A Wand of Quickened Ray of Frost is a standard action to activate, because although it's replicating a spell effect, the item description specifically states "otherwise".

-Hyp.

I agree the 'general rule' is that activating an item is a standard action. However, the SRD quote I posted above indicates that for a wondrous item, "it is either a standard action or no action at all" If the use takes time before the magical effect, it's a standard action, if the use is 'subsumed' in the magical effect, it takes no action at all. So a wondrous twig of lightning bolt whose use consists of pointing it at a target (dangerous item, I'll admit) takes no action to fire it's lightning bolt, right?

As for multiples in a round - all joking aside, it's an insane GM that allows more than one or two free actions, and even more insane GM that allows multiple magical effects from the same character in the same round without closely investigating the magical spells allowing you to do so.

 

[Li Shenron]

Normally, Wondrous Items don't let the wielder cast spells. They replicate spells effects, so it makes sense to wonder why not metamagic? But I think that for the moment, 3.5 doesn't contemplate the possibility. There may be some specific item around whose effect may be equivalent to a metamagicked spell, in which case it would be interesting to see if the mm feat is in the prerequisites or not...

 

[Hypersmurf]

So a wondrous twig of lightning bolt whose use consists of pointing it at a target (dangerous item, I'll admit) takes no action to fire it's lightning bolt, right?

Unless you write that specifically into the item description, then no, because a lightning bolt would fall under the "casting time" clause, and require a standard action.

-Hyp.