can you meta magic wands?

[cool hand luke]

can you apply meta-magic feats to wands? using only core 3.5 rules?

 

[Li Shenron]

Ok, prepare to see my opinion mercyless annihilated by rules experts in less than few posts.

Yes, you can appy metamagic feats to Wands as long as you do NOT:

1) apply Quicken spell: the activation for the wand would still be the same, i.e. standard action

2) increase the spell level above 4th, since there is no wand with spells 5th+

 

[Darklone]

Since the level 4 limit still applies, I would even think hard about allowing Quickened 0-level spells on wands

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

What's your source reference that no wand can hold a spell greater than 4th?

 

[Olorin]

What's your source reference that no wand can hold a spell greater than 4th?

SRD under Magic Items, Wands:

"WANDS
A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower. "

 

[Spatzimaus]

From the 3.5E SRD:
"Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell's higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell."

This assumes you meant "can I store a metamagicked version of a spell in a wand?". If you meant "can I apply a metamagic to a normal wand's effect if I'm a spontaneous caster?" the answer is no. That's in the SRD, too.

 

[kreynolds]

1) apply Quicken spell: the activation for the wand would still be the same, i.e. standard action

I truly don't understand this. If this is an argument that's been going on for some time, then I've totally missed it. I even emailed CS (and the Sage, but he hasn't replied yet) about this recently, and thus far, they haven't explained their reasoning.

Here's the exchange I'm having with CS right now...

-----Original Message-----
From: Reynolds,Kelly
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:57 AM
To: 'Wizards Customer Service'
Subject: RE: Quickened spells and wands....


I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm confused as to where you draw this from.

"Magic item activation is always a standard action."

Where do the rules state "always"? Page 213 of the DMG states...

"In most cases, using an item requires a standard action..."

and

"Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise."

It also states...

"However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, whether it's a scroll, a wand, or a pair of boots, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.

Then the PH says...

"With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand."

So, the DMG states that the activation time for a magic item is the casting time of a spell. The PH states that you can place a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll. The casting time for a quickened ray of frost is a free action. If you can place a quickened ray of frost on a scroll, and the casting time of the quickened ray of frost is a free action, why is the activation time of a scroll of quickened ray of frost not a free action when it's activation time is dependent upon the casting time of the quickened ray of frost?

I don't understand the need for a "house rule" when the rules seem to support this. Did I miss a rule stating that quickened spells are not free actions to activate in a magic item?

Kelly Reynolds

-----Original Message-----
From: Wizards Customer Service [mailto:custserv@wizards.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 5:31 PM
To: Reynolds,Kelly
Subject: RE: Quickened spells and wands....


1. Magic item activation is always a standard action. Unless your DM makes a house rule stating otherwise, you can't have a quickened item.
2. This just means that if you are creating an item that stores spells, you can create them using the metamagic version of the spell (such as a scroll, potion, or staff) at the higher caster level rather than the standard version of the spell.

**Please quote this e-mail in any reply.**
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Darrin
Wizards of the Coast - Customer Service
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-----Original Message-----
From: Reynolds,Kelly [mailto:kreynolds@Mannatech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 3:21 PM
To: Wizards Customer Service
Subject: Quickened spells and wands....


Is the activation time of a wand of quickened ray of frost a free action? I can find no passage stating otherwise.

While I'm on the subject of metamagic feats and magic items, page 88 of the PH says...

"Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand."

No other magic items are mentioned in that passage, so I'm curious; Can you no longer craft wondrous items with spells using metamagic feats? If you can, would the activation time of a wondrous item using a quickened spell be a free action?

Kelly Reynolds

 

[MerakSpielman]

I say go ahead and allow quickened spells to be cast as a free action from a wand. What're you going to do, hit me with an extra Ray of Frost every round? I can't see how quickened cantrips could be abused, frankly, and the wand still costs the same as a wand with 5th level spells, so low-level characters can't even afford it.

 

[Darklone]

How they can be abused? Two rays of frost per round with full sneak attack damage for an Arcane Trickster. A crazy DM might even allow him to cast another Quickened Ray of Frost additionally.

 

[DM2]

I say go ahead and allow quickened spells to be cast as a free action from a wand. What're you going to do, hit me with an extra Ray of Frost every round? I can't see how quickened cantrips could be abused, frankly, and the wand still costs the same as a wand with 5th level spells, so low-level characters can't even afford it.

How about a quickened ray of frost every round for 1d3+5d6 damage thanks to sneak attacks from the greater invisible arcane trickster or equivalent....

Better yet, how about the higher level rogue with use magic device firing off quickened, sneak attacking rays of frost every round from his wand thanks to greater invisibility, a ring of blinking, etc.

Not saying its unbalanced or against the rules, but, well, its nothing to sneeze at in some circumstances.

DM2