Pathfinder 1E Can you ready a five foot step?

[MortalPlague]

Unfortunately, I don't see any good way to actually fix the problem, other than just saying "don't!". There are genuine cases where a five-foot step is indeed required, and nothing else will really do the job (although 4e's approach of making a Shift a Move action goes a long way towards fixing the abuses). But it's never really been a clean bit of the rules.

One of my favorite things about 5th Edition (so far) is the complete lack of a 'five-foot step' as we know it. I've never seen my players take so many opportunity attacks (or get so many from mobile monsters). And combats have much more movement in them.

Granted, 'shift' is a feat now. But it's nowhere near as easy to abuse as the good ol' five foot step.

 

[DogBackward]

It seems like you'd be opening up a can of worms on that one. You're low on hit points, the big orc barbarian lumbers up to you and swings his greataxe. Your readied action to step five feet back goes off, and he can't attack you?

Unless the orc also has the option to pursue if he still has movement left. Otherwise it's a readied dodge that makes you immune to melee attacks.

Sure... if the orcs don't decide to just ignore you, or use ranged attacks themselves, or charge you (they'd have movement left after your 5ft. step, and could thus finish the charge), or have more than one orc attack at once. It's not some magical "get out of hits free" card, but it is a useful option.

 

[Ebony Dragon]

It seems like you'd be opening up a can of worms on that one. You're low on hit points, the big orc barbarian lumbers up to you and swings his greataxe. Your readied action to step five feet back goes off, and he can't attack you?

Unless the orc also has the option to pursue if he still has movement left. Otherwise it's a readied dodge that makes you immune to melee attacks.

Yes, if the orc still has movement available it can continue moving after you finish your readied action (whatever that was). Either to move up another 5 feet and attack you, or just change its mind and do something else with the rest of its move and standard action instead.

 

[DogBackward]

Yes, if the orc still has movement available it can continue moving after you finish your readied action (whatever that was). Either to move up another 5 feet and attack you, or just change its mind and do something else with the rest of its move and standard action instead.

Not quite. The triggering creature has already spent its standard action to make an attack. That doesn't change just because you're no longer in range for said attack. Think of it this way: if the creature doesn't make the attack, then it never triggered the readied action, so its attack wasn't negated, so it makes the attack, which triggers the readied action, which negates its attack...

The readied action is resolved before the triggering action, but it doesn't actually give the triggering creature its action back.

 

[Ebony Dragon]

Not quite. The triggering creature has already spent its standard action to make an attack. That doesn't change just because you're no longer in range for said attack. Think of it this way: if the creature doesn't make the attack, then it never triggered the readied action, so its attack wasn't negated, so it makes the attack, which triggers the readied action, which negates its attack...

The readied action is resolved before the triggering action, but it doesn't actually give the triggering creature its action back.

But the orc never attacked. It hasn't rolled any d20's yet. It is still in the middle of its movement phase if it hasn't made the attack roll yet.

 

[Light Knight]

Back to my last comment...."So there is NO defense against an invisible rogue..."

Other than say see invis or blind fighting?

 

[DogBackward]

But the orc never attacked. It hasn't rolled any d20's yet. It is still in the middle of its movement phase if it hasn't made the attack roll yet.

No, it's used a standard action to make an attack. If it hadn't, then it wouldn't have triggered the readied action yet.

The order goes like this:

1. Orc uses a move action to move adjacent to Rogue. This movement doesn't trigger anything, so is resolved immediately.
2. Orc uses a standard action to attack Rogue. This triggers the Rogue's readied action.
3. Rogue's readied action is triggered, to he takes a 5ft. step away. This doesn't trigger anything, so is resolved immediately.
4. The Orc's attack from #2 gets to resolve now, but he doesn't have reach so he can't hit the Rogue.

Note that after #2, the orc has declared an attack, but hasn't yet resolved it. He's still used his standard action, and doesn't get to change that later on just because he no longer has a target to attack.

If you play Magic: the Gathering, you can think of readied actions as something similar to The Stack. Orc plays "Scimitar Attack", and Rogue plays "5ft. step" in response. "5ft. step" grants protection from melee attacks, which invalidates "Scimitar Attack". Because "Scimitar Attack" no longer has a legal target, it fizzles... but it's not returned to its owner's hand. Just like a Fireball isn't returned to your hand if someone plays an Protection from Red spell in response.

 

[DogBackward]

Back to my last comment...."So there is NO defense against an invisible rogue..."

Other than say see invis or blind fighting?

Or a bag of flour, or Uncanny Dodge, or a high Listen check, or an even higher Spot check, or Purge Invisibility, or a bunch of paint, or Faerie Fire, or a dusty floor, or area attacks, or...

Yeah, magic is powerful, and is best countered with more magic. But there are mundane methods of countering it. No matter what, though, an invisible Rogue is definitely a major threat... which they should be. Learn to carry some countermeasures and you'll be fine. This is exactly the sort of thing that adventurers learn about by experience. There's a reason experienced D&D players always load up on marbles and flour and oil and pitons and whatnot.

 

[Light Knight]

DogBackward's response seems the most legitimate, as it allows the use of "tactics", though someone on the first page suggested the move be chosen during the readied action, since you might not know exactly what direction it was coming from..but then that would suggest facing.

 

[DogBackward]

DogBackward's response seems the most legitimate, as it allows the use of "tactics", though someone on the first page suggested the move be chosen during the readied action, since you might not know exactly what direction it was coming from..but then that would suggest facing.

Actually, the suggestion wasn't to declare the direction of the 5ft. step when you ready the action. It was to declare where you're moving after the readied action is triggered, but before the invisible creature becomes visible. You still get to decide in the moment, you just don't know what move is the best option.