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Can you teleport an unwilling, but unconscious, person with you?

mikebr99

Explorer
Crothian said:


If you are not willing it doesn't work.
No... if you are not willing, then you roll your will save.

You can be not willing by not being able to make the distinction.
No... if you don't make the will save (and a helpless can't) then you are automatically willing.

I think your confusing not willing by refusing and not willing by means of the absence of willing. If that made sense to you, you think like me and should be scared. :)
Oh... I am scared... but I think the rules are leaning in my favour.
 

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Crothian

First Post
mikebr99 said:

Oh... I am scared... but I think the rules are leaning in my favour.

What will save? There is no Will save for Teleport. The target has to be willing (conscience effort) or it does not work. No roll of dies, no saving throw, nothing.
 

mikebr99

Explorer
I am still going to say that by default, everyone (freind or foe) is willing when they are helpless. That way it is usefull to get a camrade out of harms way etc.
 

kreynolds

First Post
Crothian said:
What will save? There is no Will save for Teleport. The target has to be willing (conscience effort) or it does not work. No roll of dies, no saving throw, nothing.

Crothian is correct. The saving throw is only applicable towards objects that are held or in use (attended) by another person. If the other person is not willing to go, the spell simply does not take them.

For instance. You grab someone's arm and cast teleport. If they don't wanna go, they don't, but you still teleport.

Here's another. You grab someone's sword and cast Teleport. The sword gets a will save. If it fails, you and the sword teleport away, leaving the hapless victim unarmed. If the sword makes it's save, you teleport away, but the sword doesn't.

I also just looked at the Raise Dead spell and it has change my entire perspective on this matter. That spell does not allow a saving throw at all. However, if the creature is not willing to come back, the spell simply fails. If the creature is in fact willing to come back, it still doesn't get a saving throw.

It makes sense to me now. I suppose the purpose behind the saving throw for Raise Dead is to make it clear that no matter where the soul is, or what situation it happens to be in, even if it involves enslavement by the most powerful demon in the Abyss, if it wants to come back, it does.

In summary, the saving throw for Teleport only applies to objects. Unwilling people are simply not teleported. Logically, if you are unconscious, the limitation of Teleport does not apply to you, as you are simply incapable of making the decision. Conversely, dead people can choose whether or not they want to be brought back using the Raise Dead spell or even the True Resurrection spell, so obviously, you do still have a choice, no matter what conditions are you currently suffering from.
 
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Don21584

First Post
How does a conscious person be unwilling of a teleport spell? By moving around and causing the spell to not go off while include them in the teleport.

How does an unconscious person be unwilling of a teleport spell? They can't.

A person can't just go, "nu unh, I don't wanna be teleported" and just stand there.
 

kreynolds

First Post
Don21584 said:
How does a conscious person be unwilling of a teleport spell? By moving around and causing the spell to not go off while include them in the teleport.

How does an unconscious person be unwilling of a teleport spell? They can't.

A person can't just go, "nu unh, I don't wanna be teleported" and just stand there.

Well color me shocked as hell. If you're from Wisconson, why is it that it's such a chore just trying to understand your lingo? I mean, I speak english, so what's the deal? Wanna try rephrasing that? ;)
 

Magus_Jerel

First Post
The teleport spell - and the relevant text here... is

Save: None AND Will negates{object).


A creature that is unwilling CANNOT be teleported.
A creature that is willing CAN be teleported - within the weight limits of the spell.

If a creature - for whatever reason - lacks the ability to exert will, it is considered an object for the purposes of the D&D game. This has to be extrapolated from the definition of the abilites wisdom and charisma. It is reinforced by the description of "non-abilities" in the MM.

The only "objects" that get saving throws are magic items - and they use those rules. Dead, Dying, or unconcious bodies don't count as "magic items" - and therefore are teleported as all normal objects - no save.
 


Don21584

First Post
Excuse me?

I was saying that there's more to being unwilling than just saying no. You'd have to move around to cause the spell to not include yourself. But, if a person is unconscious, they cannot move around at all.
 

kreynolds

First Post
Don21584 said:
Excuse me?

It was just a joke, thus the smiley. Ah, screw it. Take it how you will.

Don21584 said:
I was saying that there's more to being unwilling than just saying no. You'd have to move around to cause the spell to not include yourself. But, if a person is unconscious, they cannot move around at all.

Moving has nothing to do with the willingness of a person being teleported. For example, if you are held or bound, you can still decide whether you are willing or not. Someone tying you up and having their way with you is certainly not the same thing. Sure, you're unwilling, but do you really have a choice in the matter? Hell no. You're tied up. But this is completely different.
 

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