Remus Lupin
Adventurer
Might I suggest that all of this argument about whether the joke is funny is itself evidence that it is not?
Caprica
- Thread starter Jack7
- Start date
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
This episode was good.
The scenes in the virtual reality were very interesting done. Nice sets, props and costumes. I think I like Tamara better than Zoe.
On the Graystone family/business front. Seriously, Daniel Graystone? I agree creating a new sentient race is an awesome feat, but using them as slaves, though... It seems to miss the point. And any concept of ethics and morality...
The scenes in the virtual reality were very interesting done. Nice sets, props and costumes. I think I like Tamara better than Zoe.
On the Graystone family/business front. Seriously, Daniel Graystone? I agree creating a new sentient race is an awesome feat, but using them as slaves, though... It seems to miss the point. And any concept of ethics and morality...
catsclaw227
First Post
I am really enjoying this show as well.
[sblock]
Seeing young Bill Adama react like that, veering towards his Tauran nature and separating himself from his father, adds to the depth of Olmos' character in BSG.
And in the board room, with Cylon/Zoe sauntering around the room, then look of admiration in her eyes when she sees her father talk about how it's like "someone being in there" and finally the shocking look on her face when he asked her to rip her arm off.
[/sblock]
Really good stuff...
[sblock]
Seeing young Bill Adama react like that, veering towards his Tauran nature and separating himself from his father, adds to the depth of Olmos' character in BSG.
And in the board room, with Cylon/Zoe sauntering around the room, then look of admiration in her eyes when she sees her father talk about how it's like "someone being in there" and finally the shocking look on her face when he asked her to rip her arm off.
[/sblock]
Really good stuff...
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
LOL!
So how long did it take to burn that message into a piece of toast, how did you do it, and which one of you did it?
Jack7
First Post
O
In my opinion he either has an ulterior motive (or set of them) for describing the Cylon construct in this way (after all, he is using self-contradictory terminology, in one instance he describes them as beyond intelligence and truly sentient, if I remember the description correctly, and at another as basically tireless mechanical slaves who should be forced to pursue a programmed existence), or it is further evidence of his basically corrupt nature.
It maybe be both, but intuitively, and almost from the very beginning, his interactions with his daughter and his seemingly amoral attitude towards the various other events surrounding him (business and personal), have convinced me that there is far more to the man than is immediately obvious, and at least some of that submerged nature may be extremely corrupt. Or at the very least highly self-involved.
(I know one additional piece of related information however, the wife was apparently physically pregnant with Zoe. The details of the pregnancy and conception are still unrelated and unexplained. It could be as normal, but I am suspicious, especially given the mythical and religious tie to the STO. In other words I do not believe the mythical and religious tie in to the girl is merely coincidental or incidental to her overall background, her nature, and the nature of her father who is both her creator - in one sense, and her "re-creator" in another, by placing the Avatar construct that Zoe reconstructed of herself into the shell of the Cylon machine construct. The ghost in the machine therefore has at least two co-creators, and perhaps more, and yet we don't really know how it was done in the first place. Yet apparently Graystone [the name itself may be a clue, and I like it to be] himself was capable of at least a similar feat with the Adama Avatar. Which I suspect means that we will have dueling natures within the Cylons themselves, because I can easily see the Adama game avatar being conscripted later for either Cylon use, or to help construct a Cyclon Artificial Intelligence Network which will help coordinate cylon revolt.)
My first reaction seems to have been similar to yours in regards to the Cylon nature. The creation of such a "being," if it could be proven as more likely than not, would automatically preclude his stated designs for the Cylon and would lead to an automatic impulse on my part for equal rights for the thing and would serve as an impetus to establish a cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship between Man and Cylon. Enslavement I wouldn't want to wish on a sentient tree monkey, and in the long run slavery is a truly horrible, stupid, and counter-productive economic relationship, if that is your only real concern.
It strikes me though that this is not Graystone's only concern. He has others.
He strikes me as odd, and wrong, for several apparent, and some not so immediately apparent reasons.
He smells funny to me (if he got within ten feet of me it'd be hard not to sniff him) and I find it hard to believe that none of the Dicks working his daughter's case haven't really been on him solid yet. Maybe they are and just aren't playing their hands yet, which is fine by me. I wouldn't play up front either. But I'd be at him with far more than search warrants for his daughter's room. I'd be surveilling him constantly and surreptitiously, washing through all of his beguines dealings, and if I could convince defense authorities of my theories, I'd have already planted a mole in his corporate operations. As a matter of fact if the girl isn't one already, then I'd try and discreetly turn her.
The man bears watching. If for no other reason than the "coincidence" of his daughter's supposed involvement in a terrorist network while he is an active defense contractor. I've never liked coincidence, and this set-up hardly makes me want to take up liking it now.
In my opinion he either has an ulterior motive (or set of them) for describing the Cylon construct in this way (after all, he is using self-contradictory terminology, in one instance he describes them as beyond intelligence and truly sentient, if I remember the description correctly, and at another as basically tireless mechanical slaves who should be forced to pursue a programmed existence), or it is further evidence of his basically corrupt nature.
It maybe be both, but intuitively, and almost from the very beginning, his interactions with his daughter and his seemingly amoral attitude towards the various other events surrounding him (business and personal), have convinced me that there is far more to the man than is immediately obvious, and at least some of that submerged nature may be extremely corrupt. Or at the very least highly self-involved.
(I know one additional piece of related information however, the wife was apparently physically pregnant with Zoe. The details of the pregnancy and conception are still unrelated and unexplained. It could be as normal, but I am suspicious, especially given the mythical and religious tie to the STO. In other words I do not believe the mythical and religious tie in to the girl is merely coincidental or incidental to her overall background, her nature, and the nature of her father who is both her creator - in one sense, and her "re-creator" in another, by placing the Avatar construct that Zoe reconstructed of herself into the shell of the Cylon machine construct. The ghost in the machine therefore has at least two co-creators, and perhaps more, and yet we don't really know how it was done in the first place. Yet apparently Graystone [the name itself may be a clue, and I like it to be] himself was capable of at least a similar feat with the Adama Avatar. Which I suspect means that we will have dueling natures within the Cylons themselves, because I can easily see the Adama game avatar being conscripted later for either Cylon use, or to help construct a Cyclon Artificial Intelligence Network which will help coordinate cylon revolt.)
My first reaction seems to have been similar to yours in regards to the Cylon nature. The creation of such a "being," if it could be proven as more likely than not, would automatically preclude his stated designs for the Cylon and would lead to an automatic impulse on my part for equal rights for the thing and would serve as an impetus to establish a cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship between Man and Cylon. Enslavement I wouldn't want to wish on a sentient tree monkey, and in the long run slavery is a truly horrible, stupid, and counter-productive economic relationship, if that is your only real concern.
It strikes me though that this is not Graystone's only concern. He has others.
He strikes me as odd, and wrong, for several apparent, and some not so immediately apparent reasons.
He smells funny to me (if he got within ten feet of me it'd be hard not to sniff him) and I find it hard to believe that none of the Dicks working his daughter's case haven't really been on him solid yet. Maybe they are and just aren't playing their hands yet, which is fine by me. I wouldn't play up front either. But I'd be at him with far more than search warrants for his daughter's room. I'd be surveilling him constantly and surreptitiously, washing through all of his beguines dealings, and if I could convince defense authorities of my theories, I'd have already planted a mole in his corporate operations. As a matter of fact if the girl isn't one already, then I'd try and discreetly turn her.
The man bears watching. If for no other reason than the "coincidence" of his daughter's supposed involvement in a terrorist network while he is an active defense contractor. I've never liked coincidence, and this set-up hardly makes me want to take up liking it now.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
The previews for the next week indicate a new character played by
!
James Marsters
catsclaw227
First Post
I agree, that as a businessman, Daniel Graystone is amoral, obvious as he has no problem hiring Tauran agents to steal a highly classified and important piece of technology. Though... I am not sure if his family nature is so callous or corrupted. He was (or appeared to me as) genuinely wracked with grief and shock about Zoe's death and involvement in the STO. When he found out about her avatar, he was desperate and didn't want to lose her. And, I am not sure if he knows or even suspects that the "sentience" he feels in the Cylon is Zoe.
Maybe, but I am not sure how Tamara, the Adama daughter, can be a key member of the Cylon uprising and have Joe Adama (or Willie) know about it. It wouldn't be consistent with how Bill Adama felt about cylons in general during the first three seasons of BSG. They would have had to show some angst or guilt about his sister's relationship with the Cylons and their rise.
I agree he needs watching. But I still can't connect the dots to support the theory that he knew about Zoe's involvement, her avatar, and arranged it all to get the holobands, apparently a sinking ship, off their books as the key revenue source and make these "sentient" Cylon workers their prime product.
Too many outside variables factored in to make this as well coordinated as you may be suggesting, but you have an interesting theory.
My guess? Daniel Graystone build cylons, they are wildly successful, he discovers Zoe's avatar and he becomes repulsed by his actions and works to help them get equal rights, attempting to redeem himself in the end.
Jack7
First Post
I have no problem with the fact that he, or any of the other corrupted or corruptible characters will work towards redemption (even if only imperfectly achieved at best) in the end.
That would be par for the course with the basic themes of Battlestar Galactica.
Things seem one way, stresses and unexpected events arise which test the true nature of the characters, some succumb to their basic nature of corruption (or even to a nature they did not fully realize they initially possessed - the planted or sleeper skinjob Cylons), some achieve only partial redemption, some achieve moderated redemption, some achieve full redemption. (I do suspect Adama's brother will achieve if not full redemption, then pretty close because his hidden nature is that of a man superior to Adama's father.)
Graystone may achieve moderated redemption. He is already too far in I suspect to achieve full redemption. I suspect we will discover his involvement is much deeper than is immediately apparent as time goes along. If we don't I'll be very surprised.
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