Pathfinder 1E Caster/Martial disparity better now that PF has been out a while?

[Gilbetron]

This is kind of a "sell me" thread. I've long been unimpressed with Pathfinder because it was just "D&D 3.75" or even more unfavorably "D&D 3.51". I've glanced at it a few times since I think Golarion is cool and the Adventure Paths are damn nifty, plus Paizo supports the living crap out of the game line, but it never really interested me. However, since I've last looked at it, there's now the Advanced Player's Guide, the race guide, more bestiaries, and lots of other stuff. And it is pretty damn nifty, even if it rests on the scaffolding of 3.5.

It makes me wonder, how is Pathfinder these days in relation to the caster/martial imbalance endemic in 3.5? I know it the corebook had alleviated it slightly, but I'm wondering if all the new stuff helps or hinders. I'm interested in both a theory perspective, and from a practical perspective. Do active PFers find it fun and relatively balanced in play? Are the new options actually as fun and interesting as they look? Or are there tons of sub-par choices and only a few good ones.

 

[Zardnaar]

Depends on how many splats are allowed. They toned down wild shape and beefed up the martial types and the problem feat like persistent spell do not exist in PF. It is better than 3.5 for the most part but it still has some issues.

 

[sheadunne]

If you don't like 3.5 you probably won't like PF. They didn't really fix the issues so much as bandaid a few of them. Fighters still can't fly, but they're a little better at resisting being controlled. SOD is pretty much gone but SOS is still floating around. Haste is still a dominate spell, but clerics and Druids aren't the unstoppable forces they were (I think Druids might have dropped out of Tier 1). A few new classes are over the top but a few others are under par. Anyway, I still think my first sentence sums it up.

 

[ImperatorK]

Nope. Still the same. Arguably, worse. But I like PF and use it, although mostly because it's still supported (and I mix it with 3.X and have some houserules).

 

[n00bdragon]

Many things were done to make non-casters better at stuff that isn't really important and many of the few tricks they had were made harder to do or hidden under more feat trees.

Meanwhile, a lot of the legitimately abusive spells and abilities of casters were toned down. On the flip side many spells were made even more powerful and new spells were added to core with little to no thoughts on balance. Most casting classes still have at least one or two straight up win buttons at every level (yes, including level 1). Furthermore, many of the casting classes have been given extra abilities which either make them better at the things no one cared about (like HP) or are just insanely broken if used correctly (look through some of the wizard variants). It tends to be the casters who get these crazy options because they can justify them with "lolmagic" or they enhance the way those classes cast spells.

So it really comes down to two steps forward two steps back.

 

[Manabarbs]

I agree with sheadunne. If you're in a place where you feel that 3.5 just needed a tiny bit of shaking up, then Pathfinder is a great system. (Or if you're able to mentally think of it as an 8-12 level system with some interesting bonus material on top, as I try to do.)

Pragmatically, I wouldn't say that new material has helped all that much. It's certainly given martial characters more interesting things to do, but not much in the way of extra power or flexibility. (Martial characters in general have more interesting archetypes available.) Most of the new BAM is unfortunately largely in the realm of spellcasters. (Significant exception: the Ranger's Instant Enemy spell is an extremely powerful option.)

On the whole, though, I wouldn't say you're really looking at any dramatic changes in the relative status of martial and magical characters since launch. I do think PF is a lot of fun, and it's possible to get things to work, especially at low-to-medium levels, but if the disparity was a turn-off point before, it probably still is.

 

[Tovec]

[MENTION=19811]Gilbetron[/MENTION] On a serious, thread-relevant note, they did a lot to address the power issues for the full-martial classes. They made excellent fixes for barbarian, paladin, rogue and monk. Bard too, but in different ways. They toned down the druid, cleric and even wizard - while boosting ALL of the core classes a little. Beyond that, "sell me"? No. If you find things it does helpful that is great. It is not 3.51. It is much closer to 3.75 and for many of us it is the sequel edition we wanted with 4e. Don't like 3.5? You probably won't like PF. But I often find that has much more to do with not liking the features of 3.5 than it has anything to do with the power levels of 3.5/PF.

The very much mock-serious side:
[sblock]This is kind of a "sell me" thread. I've long been unimpressed with Playstation 3 because it was just "Playstation 2 ver.2" or even more unfavorably "Playstation 2.1". I've glanced at it a few times since I think Uncharted is cool and the Games are damn nifty, plus Sony supports the living crap out of the game line, but it never really interested me. However, since I've last looked at it, there's now the Infamous, Final Fantasy, more Resident Evil games, and lots of other stuff. And it is pretty damn nifty, even if it rests on the scaffolding of Playstation 2.[/sblock]
Why would I try to sell you on something you seem to dislike? Worse yet, why do I need to do the selling when you clearly have interest in the products being released. Buy them, don't buy them; I don't work for Paizo, so maybe I fail to see the point of trying to convince you either way.

 

[Manabarbs]

I think the OP is talking about changes that might have happened between release and now, not between 3.5 and release. I don't think they have made significant changes to the barbarian, paladin, rogue or monk since then, although there is certainly tons of material that makes them more interesting. Those classes are cooler and better-designed than their 3.5 counterparts, and have gotten some cool tools (especially the barbarian) since launch, I don't know that there's been an overall PF trend towards addressing the disparity.