Casters Suck? Please explain.

[The Monster]

I still have to hit with my powers to perform the heals and other effects associated with the ability. Otherwise, my turn consists of Healing word, and that's it. Not to mention, that is only TWICE per encounter. Yes, I have a CD that allows me to heal in a burst. My issue last night is that NO one was in my burst, and I couldn't get to anyone because I was completely surrounded during EVERY encounter.

I can feel some of this pain - 3 of the 5 characters I regularly play are leaders. But the words I highlighted here cause me some concern. You have two strikers, in a party of three total, and both of them outrun their healing? And they don't protect their healer? The build advice everyone's given is great, but teamwork is key no matter what your build, and I wonder if the teamwork is really firing on all cylinders. Not knowing specifics, things could be OK in that department, but as a leader player, I've noticed a strong tendency among striker players to charge off like a pack of hounds. With a leader, especially a pacifist, they can't expect you to stand alone while they go for the glory; after all, if the healer goes down, they're probably toast. Granted, without a defender (until your second character comes in) or anyone who can even pretend to cover as defender, this is tricky. But among their first-target priority should be the ones which are engaging your cleric. It's not evident from the posts so far how much coordination there is between players; I just thought I should bring this up as another aspect to consider.

 

[Tony Vargas]

My favorites are still Wizard and Cleric, but I have been noticing more and more that I am not having fun because I am not hitting anything. I am currently playing a "Shielding Cleric" in a campaign. With a +6 to hit at level 2, I can't hit the broad side of a barn.

A +6 at 2nd level should be fine, unless your DM is using overleveled monsters a lot. One of the tricks to playing a 4e implement user well is targetting the 'right' (ie lowest) defense. It's not always easy, but you can often guess from a monster's description or actions what it's defenses might be like or what role it might be, and from role, you can guess at low defesnse: Brutes tend to hit hard, if not often, and generally to be big and straightforwards - they tend to have very high FORT, so WILL & REF are your best bets. Controllers tend to be good with all defenses, but REF is sometimes the low one. Skirmishers and Artillery tend to lack FORT. Actually, WILL is rarely ever high, with Controllers being the most likely exception.

As the encounter progresses, you can further feel out defenses and vulnerabilities and choose which attacks to use to best effect.

Of course, there are also options to just pump your attack bonus. A high primary stat and magic implement are the obvious ones. With a Wizard, you don't have a strong need for your secondary stat, so a 20 isn't out of the question. A 16 probably should be out of the question. With a Cleric, you might want some STR or CHA or CON, depending on your build, so might settle for a 16, especially if you're not a +WIS race, or an 18 if your do have +WIS. You can also take an Implement Expertise and/or proficiency in a Superior 'Accurate' Implement. There are a (very) few other attack bonus feats that'll stack with Expertise.... (Hellfire Blood is the only one I can think of off-hand).


There are also situational ways to hit more often. Combat Advantage is the most obvious, but not as easy for implement types to get (wizards aren't known for being stealthy). But, Distant Advantage (feat) is an option. If you're using Fortune Cards, salting your deck with Phanton Ally does the trick. Leaders can hand out attack bonuses. As a controller, you should be able to inflict the occassional defense penalty or combat-advantage-granting condition, like Daze. Also, while you don't get CA as easily, Area and Close attacks ignore concealment (and can get around cover, sometimes), and of course, traget multiple enemies (meaning you're more likely to hit at least once), so theyt can also help you hit more often, relatively speaking.


Finally, if you're a Mage - or just choose Magic Missle - you can always fall back on that when an enemy proves hard to hit, or you feel your dice are 'cold.'

 

[WOLead]

Ah, the reason why I like playing a human Warlock. When I hit level 11, I'll have a vs. AC, vs. Fort, vs. Ref, and a vs. Will at-will powers to always target the lowest defense if/when needed. Eldritch Strike(AC), Hand of Blight(Fort), and Eldritch Blast(Ref) for either Cha or Con, then either Eyebite(Will) or Eye of Vestige for Cha or Con respectively. Eldritch Blast is also easily swappable to either Gift of Avernus or Hellish Rebuke as alternative vs. Ref powers. Pre-11, I'm usually just either missing vs. Fort or vs. Will.

Personal experience, I've found that vs. Fort powers are the worst off for any implement power. You'll be surprised just how MANY things have a good fort defense, no matter their role. With monster stats influence their NADs and it being RARE that a monster has low Strength and Constitution, then their Fort Defense is almost always painful to try to hit as an implement user.

Low Fort is always seems to me to be a rare exception when comparing defenses, never an example. Especially in the common monsters/foes DMs like to throw around.

 

[Azlith]

When is a monster's Reflex so much different from AC to warrant the serious lack of attack bonus for implement users?

Average Low level monsters

Human Goon: AC 15, Fortitude 13, Reflex 11, Will 11
Feltaint Lasher: AC 15; Fortitude 12, Reflex 12, Will 14
Kobold Dragonshield: AC 18, Fortitude 14, Reflex 13, Will 13
Hunting Wolf: AC 16; Fortitude 14, Reflex 14, Will 13
Kenku Ruffian: AC 17; Fortitude 15, Reflex 16, Will 15
Orc Scout: AC 17; Fortitude 16, Reflex 15, Will 13
Gnome Skulk: AC 16; Fortitude 14, Reflex 14, Will 12
Shadow Wolf: AC 17; Fortitude 15, Reflex 16, Will 14
Shadow Stalker: AC 15, Fortitude 14, Reflex 16, Will 14
Imp: AC 17, Fortitude 13, Reflex 17, Will 15

I had to specifically go to Lurkers to find some where the NADs were close or a bit better than AC. Otherwise, they are all 2-3 points less than AC, roughly equivalent to proficiency bonuses.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Also, at least in terms of newer stuff, they have given leaders and controllers a bit more wiggle room for their powers, with the encounter powers having effect lines, miss lines, or not attack roll needed effects so that, even if they fail to hit, they are still able to do their job as a leader/controller (since the leader failing to buff the party, or a controller failing to debuff the enemy, can cause a chain reaction of preventing other characters from hitting and doing their own job, etc). Now, taking warpriest powers for the cleric would require taking weapon attacks which would make the cleric a bit of a melee combantant and may go against the characters theme, but it's an option (and having the ability to go to melee if necessary may be useful when surrounded).

 

[eriktheguy]

Average Low level monsters

...

I had to specifically go to Lurkers to find some where the NADs were close or a bit better than AC. Otherwise, they are all 2-3 points less than AC, roughly equivalent to proficiency bonuses.

A quick look at level 2 monsters (first 25 in compendium)
Ref = AC: Black Dragon Wyrmling; Gravash, Dragonborn Swiftblade; Boontah the Goblin Champion; Dreus Matrand; Bone Construct; Glass Guardian Nestling; Goblin Crazy
Ref only 1 less than AC: Brass Dragon Wyrmling; Myrissa, Shadar-Kai Dark Warlock; Valshelar; Grand Melee Gladiator; Grand Melee Gladiator; Kruthik Hatchling; Elf Hunter
Of the first 25 monsters, 8 have Ref = AC, 8 have Ref = AC-1, and 9 have Ref 2 or more points below AC. For the majority of these monsters, weapon attacks are better off than implement VS reflex. They aren't mostly lurkers, many offenders are skirmishers and artillery (some of the most common monsters in my encounters).

Most people probably prefer MM3 monsters over all others, so lets look at the 20 monsters leveled 2-3.
AC < Ref: 1
AC = Ref: 3
AC = Ref - 1: 6
AC >/= Ref - 2: 10
So for about half the monsters Ref is not a good defense to follow.

Some of the most commonly offending monsters are brutes, who have unusually low AC. Despite intuition they often have average reflex. Skirmishers and artillery also tend to have average reflex. Lurkers and and controllers sometimes have average and sometimes have a few points higher.

Overall Ref is one of the most consistent defenses. It tends to be the lowest def on soldiers, for which it is generally average or below average. It's definitely worth it for an NAD attacker to pick up an against will or against fort attack. Fort is reliable against artillery and controllers. Will tends to be a low def in general.

Defenses in general are very swingy, even within roles. So don't be surprised if you end up in one combat where Ref or Fort or Will misses everything.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Stop attacking barns. Oh sure, they don't fight back and are easy to kill, but doing so really upsets the gazebos.

If the gazebos are mad at you, you are doomed.

Also, leave windmills alone. You don't need that kind of trouble.

 

[mudlock]

Also, leave windmills alone. You don't need that kind of trouble.

The problem with windmills is that there's a good chance they might be giants; you've got to tilt at them straight away, lest they get the drop on you.

 

[Baumi]

You certainly have a very unusual party, but don't give up them yet. Find your strength and use it to your advantage! Since you are good at range, stealth and healing try guerrilla/hit and run tactics, which should be much easier to pull of than with a normal 5-Character Group.

Try to trick single targets (or very small groups) into ambushes, the Monk should either stay hidden and suddenly flank them or protect you in melee while you and the sorcerer quickly take one or two enemies out. Your healing should be more then adequate to make quick high risk Maneuvers possible. The important thing is that you should always be ready to back out of a fight if something goes wrong, especially if you stumble into a combat instead of initiating it.

The important thing is that you have a talk about tactics with the others and stick to the plan.

If you can get to play an additional defender then use that opportunity, but I would recommend either to play an essential Character (Knight!) or a DMG2 Companion (but be certain that the GM doesn't count Companions as full Player Characters since they are a bit weaker in their Roles).

By the way it looks like that no one uses the Character Builder, which I would recommend since some of your group doesn't seem to have a good grasp of the rules yet. The Powers all have a summary of the Attack and Damage for the powers, which should really help them out.