Casting from Scrolls
- Thread starter Zlorf2004
- Start date
Li Shenron
Legend
It's a good question.
UMD definitely lets you emulate the fact of having the spell on your spell list (and renders the arcane/divine nature of the scroll irrelevant) with a skill check.
If the spell is also of a level so high that you normally wouldn't be able to cast it (because you don't have a high enough Int/Wis/Cha), you make a second separate UMD check.
If you fail at least 1 check, you don't activate the scroll but also there's no mishap chance. If you otherwise succeed, you activate the scroll. At that point, normally you could have a mishap chance if your caster level is lower than the CL of the scroll... there is no explicit mention about emulating a CL with UMD, and there is no explicit mention if you need to do it at all for scrolls.
If you want to be strict, I think you probably should require it, and use the "emulate a class feature" option of UMD. That however makes for up to 3 checks required to use that scroll, which possibly make it quite difficult to succeed (especially if you are not a spellcaster at all and therefore have CL 0).
If you think this is too much, you could rule0 that since "use a scroll" option of UMD doesn't mention emulating the CL separately, you don't have to check it separately. This however has the downside that you never suffer mishaps with UMD, while spellcasters who just lack in CL do, and it doesn't sound very fair to me.
UMD definitely lets you emulate the fact of having the spell on your spell list (and renders the arcane/divine nature of the scroll irrelevant) with a skill check.
If the spell is also of a level so high that you normally wouldn't be able to cast it (because you don't have a high enough Int/Wis/Cha), you make a second separate UMD check.
If you fail at least 1 check, you don't activate the scroll but also there's no mishap chance. If you otherwise succeed, you activate the scroll. At that point, normally you could have a mishap chance if your caster level is lower than the CL of the scroll... there is no explicit mention about emulating a CL with UMD, and there is no explicit mention if you need to do it at all for scrolls.
If you want to be strict, I think you probably should require it, and use the "emulate a class feature" option of UMD. That however makes for up to 3 checks required to use that scroll, which possibly make it quite difficult to succeed (especially if you are not a spellcaster at all and therefore have CL 0).
If you think this is too much, you could rule0 that since "use a scroll" option of UMD doesn't mention emulating the CL separately, you don't have to check it separately. This however has the downside that you never suffer mishaps with UMD, while spellcasters who just lack in CL do, and it doesn't sound very fair to me.
Zlorf2004 said:
A rogue/wizard wizard or a rogue/sorcerer would only need to use "Use Magic Device" if attempting to use a divine scroll or an arcane spell not on the spell list of the wizard or sorcerer. An example would be a rogue/wizard trying to use an arcane scroll of cure light wounds which was obviously created by a bard (since they are the only arcane class with cure light wounds on their list). Although wizards/sorcerers cast arcane magic, they do not have cure light wounds on their spell list, thus the character has to UMD to emulate another class (a bard in this case). The character wouldn't need to do this if the scroll was magic missile even if the character was only a level 1/1 character and the scroll was written by a wizard at 9th level.
If the character has a high enough ability score to cast that level spell, no problem. If not, they can't cast it. Wizards need an Intelligence of 11 to cast first level spells, and a 19 to cast 9th level spells. Assuming the character has a high enough ability score, they can cast it - that it, provided they made their UMD (if needed) and assuming their caster level is equal or higher than the caster level for which the scroll was written.
Assuming that they are not however, the character needs to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level +1) to cast the spell successfully from the scroll. If the check fails, the character then makes a Will save at DC 5 to avoid a mishap. A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.
I won’t type out all the possible mishaps in their full text but here is an abbreviated list:
* A surge of energy (1d6 damage per spell level)
* Spell strikes wrong target (user or ally) instead
* Takes effect in a random location
* Spell effect is contrary, fireballs may blast non-damaging cold or healing instead
* The user may suffer a bizarre effect like smoke coming from their ears from a fireball spell, gain nonfunctional wings from a fly spell
* Innocuous items appear, like a rain of lit torches
* Spell has delayed effects
BTW, all this info can be found in the DMG3.5 on page 238.
Last edited:
Scharlata
First Post
rrealm said:
Hi!
... and don't forget to apply Arcane Spell Failure for wearing armor.
Add to the text on page 238 this text from the FAQ:
FAQ said:
Kind regards
P.S.: Re-reading this addendum, is the whole scroll "wasted" if you suffered a mishap, were there (i.e.) three spells on it?
Scharlata said:Hi!
... and don't forget to apply Arcane Spell Failure for wearing armor.
Good point. I forgot to mention that.
Scharlata said:
It is certainly implied that the entire scroll and any remaining spells are forever gone. I'd keep it as is since it represents the dangers of using spells you are not otherwise ready for.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
I could just be a mean DM though
Li Shenron
Legend
rrealm said:It is certainly implied that the entire scroll and any remaining spells are forever gone. I'd keep it as is since it represents the dangers of using spells you are not otherwise ready for.
You definitely are
I don't think it impies that all spells are gone, just the one you cast wrongly. After all it says "you lose the spell on the scroll", and not "all spells". Since 99% of the times a scroll has 1 spell only, the writer probably assumed that as well anyway.Li Shenron said:You definitely are
emphasis added.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Zlorf2004 said:Hi, Thanks for the replies
I probably didnt word the original question correctly.
Would a mishap occur if you are a character with only the UMD skill and no spell list etc, like a straight thief?
Absolutely.
UMD allows you to emulate a certain level of spell caster (with the appropriate spell list). The caster level emulated is determined by your roll. If you roll badly, you have the same inherent risks as the foolish apprentice who dares toy with his master's scroll library.
I'm not so sure about that. I thought that was the way it worked to, until I checked the skill again.Ridley's Cohort said:
It gives you a DC to activate a scroll, not a DC to emulate a caster level.
It seems that if you don't make the DC to activate the scroll, you just fail to activate it, with no option to make a caster level check or get a mishap.
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