castle ravenloft ... again?

[Eben]

Maybe I should try to rephrase my question a bit, to save some of you the trouble of trying to read my mind.

I have a party in which some people played the original module. Everybody has played quite a bit of AD&D Ravenloft (up to roots of evil).
Do the people with some knowledge of the new adventure think that it will be interesting for this group to run the new module? Or will there be too much deja vu all around or just for those that played the original module?

Peter

 

[Hawken]

Simple question: if you have played the original module (and years of Ravenloft after that), how enjoyable will this new edition be?

I'll be running this as a one shot at the end of the month and as is, I don't see it being on par with the original either in terms of scariness or enjoyability. In fact, there are so many things that are different (Madame Eva, for example), that its practically a different game with some old, familiar names slapped on it.

The artwork of Strahd is disappointing, especially with him wearing the blue and looking more like a crack-addicted elven pirate than anything else and much of the rest of the art looks like cuts from a very poorly drawn cartoon. The illustration of Ireena is probably one of the worst I've seen--she looks like a guy with boobs; none of the haunted beauty of the original. And there are few illustrations of the enemies you fight, at least the more interesting ones anyway--the ones that are there do not convey any sense of danger, horror, or menace; you'll just think, "damn, that's one ugly mother--".

For those of you that don't know, for a campaign style game, your players are supposed to start around 5-6 level and work up to 9-10 before even encountering Strahd (if they do before then, they should pretty well be slaughtered). However, as he is written, Strahd would be incredibly easy for a group of 10th lvl characters to take down--even more so if they were actually prepared for him and even got his rid of his special ties to the land (which is actually the purpose of the campaign style of playing this). The big flaw is this plan is why would Strahd sit around while you foil his plans and get more powerful in the process to the point where you actually threaten him? He has so many spies at his beck and call that it is ridiculous to think that he doesn't know where the PCs are or what they are doing at almost any given time. He would come down out of his castle and finish the PCs off. Even an overconfident necromancer vampire is not going to sit idly by while paladins, clerics, a holy order of paladins and clerics, and their riff-raff friends go trolling around his backyard getting stronger by the fight and picking up magic to use against him.

There won't be any surprises, and in a horror-themed adventure, that's a big deal.

Actually, there are some surprises, but they are along the lines of "what the hell is this?" There is no sense of horror or tragedy and virtually no gothic elements. Its a monster hunt, plain and simple this time around, just with a lot more wierder monsters. There is no real sense of isolation or entrapment and even the poisonous choking fog from the original adventure (and the campaign setting) is gone.

Well, you'll no doubt be thrilled to know that it's incredible. It'll go down as a watershed in adventure design.

I'll have to disagree on the incredible. It's an ok update, but I feel bad for my friend having to pay full price to get it for me (I'm happy to have it as an early birthday present since I'm obsessive about any Ravenloft material, even this), definitely not $34.95 worth of material in here. As for it being a watershed, yes, if by that you mean having to pay more for a single adventure than for many supplemental books and goodies already out there.

There is a real level-drain mechanic. If the character fails a Fort save, he really loses the level. Really. I've seen it happen. Player then scared of undead.

This is true, but the two feats in this book have made the energy drain thing nothing more than a minor annoyance. You get to ignore the effects of a negative level for 1 min/Con mod and you get to keep making a Will save to get rid of the negative levels each round until you succeed. Which means in less than 2 minutes after combat is over, that negative level is gone.

The Knight of the Raven is a good PrC but the requirement (spending a night in the chapel of Castle Ravenloft) is just utterly ludicrous. No way in any stretch of even the most generous DM's imagination would Strahd allow a paladin or cleric to spend a night praying in the chapel in his own castle! "Hmm, that paladin is praying in my chapel. If I don't do something, come the dawn, he'll have even more power and be an even greater pain in my butt! And maybe bring some friends along too next time! He can Smite Evil and he'll be able to Smite Undead too and that could really hurt! Even me! Nah...he can stay. It'll never happen!" Yeah, right! Anyone trying that would wake up undead!

Overall, it's ok for a one shot game--which is what I'm going to do with it--but a campaign is not just plausible. Strahd would not just sit around in his castle waiting for paladins, clerics and whatever else to gain 4-5 levels running around in his backyard before squashing them. They don't even really need to go after him either, they can just sit around Ireena, wait for Strahd to show up to try and turn her (into a vampire) and dust his ass. Wash, rinse and repeat until powerful enough to waltz into the castle and take him out for good.

 

[jezter6]

**** SPOILERS BELOW ****



I'll start out by saying I never played I6, although I've had some forays into ravenloft, as one of my old D&D group friends was obsessed with Strahd in a not so healthy way...but I'll leave that for another topic.

For those of you that don't know, for a campaign style game, your players are supposed to start around 5-6 level and work up to 9-10 before even encountering Strahd (if they do before then, they should pretty well be slaughtered). However, as he is written, Strahd would be incredibly easy for a group of 10th lvl characters to take down--even more so if they were actually prepared for him and even got his rid of his special ties to the land (which is actually the purpose of the campaign style of playing this). The big flaw is this plan is why would Strahd sit around while you foil his plans and get more powerful in the process to the point where you actually threaten him? He has so many spies at his beck and call that it is ridiculous to think that he doesn't know where the PCs are or what they are doing at almost any given time. He would come down out of his castle and finish the PCs off. Even an overconfident necromancer vampire is not going to sit idly by while paladins, clerics, a holy order of paladins and clerics, and their riff-raff friends go trolling around his backyard getting stronger by the fight and picking up magic to use against him.

I'll agree that Strahd is pretty weak for the level 10 full magic party. I think, though, that you might be misreading some of it.

First, it says you might gain "three, or maybe four" levels...which doesn't ensure your 6th level party comes out 10th...not that 1 level might make all the difference.
Also, the way that comes off is that you'll get all those levels after completing the whole book, which means after Strahd. So maybe even then you could come out level 9 only after you beat Strahd.

Actually, there are some surprises, but they are along the lines of "what the hell is this?" There is no sense of horror or tragedy and virtually no gothic elements. Its a monster hunt, plain and simple this time around, just with a lot more wierder monsters. There is no real sense of isolation or entrapment and even the poisonous choking fog from the original adventure (and the campaign setting) is gone.

I'll disagree there. To me, the whole book screams spooky fun. Depending on the motivations of Strahd chosen, it can be much more than just a monster hunt. IIRC it does say somewhere that you can't leave if Strahd doesn't want you to, and that he controls the mists, although I didn't see stats for it. Personally, I would require some sort of high Navigation and/or Survival check to try and navigate the mists, and if they fail, they just end up right back where they started (or for some additional fun...somewhere else on the map completely).

Really, I think it depends on the group. If you're running Age of Worms, then 'just another undead adventure' this might end up being. If you're running a lower magic game where vampires are scary, then it's got a better shot at being 'Ravenloft' instead of just another place to go turn undead and kill some zombies.

I'll have to disagree on the incredible. It's an ok update, but I feel bad for my friend having to pay full price to get it for me (I'm happy to have it as an early birthday present since I'm obsessive about any Ravenloft material, even this), definitely not $34.95 worth of material in here. As for it being a watershed, yes, if by that you mean having to pay more for a single adventure than for many supplemental books and goodies already out there.

The Knight of the Raven is a good PrC but the requirement (spending a night in the chapel of Castle Ravenloft) is just utterly ludicrous. No way in any stretch of even the most generous DM's imagination would Strahd allow a paladin or cleric to spend a night praying in the chapel in his own castle! "Hmm, that paladin is praying in my chapel. If I don't do something, come the dawn, he'll have even more power and be an even greater pain in my butt! And maybe bring some friends along too next time! He can Smite Evil and he'll be able to Smite Undead too and that could really hurt! Even me! Nah...he can stay. It'll never happen!" Yeah, right! Anyone trying that would wake up undead!

Overall, it's ok for a one shot game--which is what I'm going to do with it--but a campaign is not just plausible. Strahd would not just sit around in his castle waiting for paladins, clerics and whatever else to gain 4-5 levels running around in his backyard before squashing them. They don't even really need to go after him either, they can just sit around Ireena, wait for Strahd to show up to try and turn her (into a vampire) and dust his ass. Wash, rinse and repeat until powerful enough to waltz into the castle and take him out for good.

I'm not too ashamed of paying $35 for it off the shelf. Since I didn't 'need' it, I could have waited, but it looked cool enough to pick up the day it came out, so I did. I would have liked more out of it, but I'm not disappointed. Like I said, I didn't have I6, so I didn't have any preconcieved notions walking into tihs.

As for Strahd just sitting around, it all depends on how you play him, and what motivations he has. In more than one motivation, he's looking to use the PCs to rid him of other enemies, or to make his undead minions. I'd want more powerful undead minions if I were to have them. Also, Strahd doesn't know the PCs right out the gate. He sends his own spies and cohorts out to harass them, size them up, etc etc. Winning those battles is going to give them XP and make them more powerful by default, it's not Strahd just sitting around. It is a given, however, that Strahd will not let them stand in vigil inside the chapel. The book even states Strahd's tactics for attacking while PCs are holding vigil.

If you play the insane Strahd, it might just be his ego that is letting the PCs get more powerful. Or he might just be nuts. Or you skip off the book a little and either 1) change his stats, that way nosy players don't know what to expect 2) Make him more active, but allowing him to escape (which he does quite often inside the castle).

Personally, I like it, and it's inspired a lot of creative juices for other things. Well worth my $35.

 

[Joël of the FoS]

From what I've read so far, it's not a rehash of the original I-6. It got many things new and other different. A lot of new stuff around the village, compared to the original.

And do not forget that Strahd's goal and the location of key items change each game with Madame Eva's tarot reading. So everytime, it's quite different.

If it's been a while since you played I6, I think you can play the new one with fun.

Joël

 

[Katowice]

Are any guidelines provided for running Ravenloft as a d20 Modern or d20 Past adventure?

 

[jezter6]

Not directly. They give a plot hook for a d20 Modern Shadow Chasers and/or Urban Arcana game, but nothing more. I was hoping to see a near complete appendix of modern conversion notes.

Go to the d20 Modern/OGL forum if you want to hear more about running it with modern there. We have a few discussions running currently.

 

[Shazman]

Well I found some of the goodness, such as the lightbringer class ability sustitutions, magic items, and spells to be absolutely fantastic. They are just about worth the cost of the book themselves. They finally gave rogues an ability(penetrating strike) that lets them be fairly effective against undead without completely obliterating them like living opponents.

 

[Sadrik]

What is this:

features a new, easy-to-use combat encounter format

 

[Hawken]

As for Strahd just sitting around, it all depends on how you play him, and what motivations he has.

This is very true. But with Strahd being able to find out about the PCs early on, even in the grip of madness, I couldn't see him just sitting around waiting for the PCs to come to him when they've had enough time to go through Barovia, foil some plans (or bring some to fruition), gather some interesting magic items (that would better serve him in his castle instead) and generally just becoming more powerful (more XP) with each new encounter they overcome until they become a genuine threat.

As for knowing about the PCs right out of the gate, that is a given in more than one scenario with the false letters he sends out to the PCs to lure them in.

you can't leave if Strahd doesn't want you to, and that he controls the mists, although I didn't see stats for it.

That would be on pgs 49-50. Yes, he does control the mists and they are potent at possibly keeping people in but instead of the equivalent of pointing a gun at your head and saying 'if you take a few more steps, you're dead', the mists are so non-threating now its like shaking a spring of poison ivy at a full plate armored knight and saying 'turn around or else'. And there's the fact that you can resist the fog and leave if you roll particularly well. With Strahd's choking fog, you were dead, maybe a little later than sooner with a few good rolls, but dead all the same if you crossed the fog.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it. In fact, it has gotten a lot of creative juices flowing, but for the quality of the content it could have been much better. Story and the juicy bits to use to make a game are fine with me. I could have done without the art alltogether (and a lower price tag--I honestly can't see this book being worth more than $19.95), but since they did pepper it with (bad) art (actually, it seems wrong to call some of that stuff 'art'), they could have actually used more than cartoons. Some of it is so lame, so childish, I was expecting to see pregenerated stats for Scooby-Doo and the gang near the index. It makes me think WotC is breaking child-labor laws and has a room full of 10-12 yr olds locked away somewhere drawing their illustrations for them.

new, easy-to-use combat encounter format

This is having a two page spread with a teeny-tiny little map for each possible combat encounter. All the info on the enemies is there as well as suggested tactics, etc. In a way, it is easy but only for the combat itself. It is kind of annoying though to have to flip back and forth from the 'game' to the encounter each time someone draws a weapon or fires off a spell.

Aside from the art, I think one of the things WotC did wrong was making this a book (unless that is their prime reason for the price tag). This should have been an adventure module or maybe a thin boxed set. One booklet for the adventure, one booklet for maps and illustrations (which would have made copying/scanning infinitely easier and more practical), and maybe a separate book for encounters. Of course, this would have left room for a number of good, old-fashioned poster maps which I would have loved!

 

[Felon]

Maybe I should try to rephrase my question a bit, to save some of you the trouble of trying to read my mind.

I have a party in which some people played the original module. Everybody has played quite a bit of AD&D Ravenloft (up to roots of evil).
Do the people with some knowledge of the new adventure think that it will be interesting for this group to run the new module? Or will there be too much deja vu all around or just for those that played the original module?

That seems to me how your original question read. Like I said, it's a redux, not a sequel. You'll be meeting the same characters over again and confronting many of the same foes and traps. Deja vu aplenty.