Castles & Crusades - illusionists

[Mythmere1]

In your game, do you use the rule of "if you disbelieve, you get a save," or "you automatically get a save to indicate disbelief"?

Does using one or the other throw off the illusionist's power relative to the rest of the party?

I hate the whole "you have to disbelieve to get a saving throw" rule. What about you?

(if you don't play C&C, feel free to chime in with recollections from earlier D&D)

 

[rogueattorney]

If there is something inherently flawed about the illusion, I will do a secret saving throw to allow the character a chance to notice that something just aint right. This type of thing would happen if the caster is trying to do a dragon, but had never actually seen a dragon before.

If the character independantly decides that he does not believe what is happenning is real, he gets a saving throw. To do this, he has to actually act like he doesn't believe the illusion. i.e. To go back to the dragon illusion, he can't defend himself from the dragon, he has to act like the dragon isn't there. Obviously, if the character is wrong about the illusion, he most likely gets munched by the dragon. Essentially, disbelief is a full round action.

I can't remember whether illusions in C&C operate like illusions in 1e, where they do actual damage. Or whether they are like illusions in other versions of the game, where the damage isn't real and goes away (see the Phantasmal Force spell in the Moldvay Basic book, for example). Personally I prefer the former to the latter.

Perhaps more than any other class (although the thief and assassin are close), the effectiveness of the illusionist depends greatly on how the DM interprets the rules. I'd always want to talk to my DM a great deal before playing one. An illusionist in the hands of a creative player and an accomadating DM can be an incredible and very versatile force. I'm quite excited that the 'real' illusionist has been reborn in C&C.

R.A.

 

[Turanil]

I like the "you must disbelieve first to get a save".

However this must be played fairly and intelligently by the DM. Let me give an example that happened to a friend of mine as a player:

His character entered a crypt were there four identical tombs. When he enters, the four tombs open exactly simultaneously, then a skeleton arm with a sword emerges at the same time from the four of them, etc. Everything exactly simultaneously. The character retreats into the staircase to fight the skeletons one by one. They were very tough but he finally destroy them all. Then he goes inside the crypt again and... the four tombs open exactly simultaneously, then a skeleton arm with a sword emerges at the same time from the four of them, etc. etc. Well, my friend says he fled and only much later came to the realization it must have been an illusion. However, there were probably enough clues for him to disbelieve them when he encountered them. As he didn't, well, the illusion worked!