Thoqqua
I thought I’d resurrect this thread to discuss the Thoqqua:
According to the MM, the Thoqqua has the following abilities:
Heat (Ex): Merely touching or being touched by a thoqqua automatically deals 2d6 fire damage.
and
Burn (Ex): When a thoqqua hits with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 13) or catch fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds if not extinguished sooner. The burning creature can use a full-round action to put out the flame (see page 86 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more information on catching on fire).
For the “Heat” ability:
I would rule that this damage would be taken by any weapon (natural or otherwise) used to attack the Thoqqua. Specifically, on any successful attack not only would the Thoqqua take damage, but the weapon used would also take fire damage from the Thoqqua.
I would also rule that this heat damage would be sufficient to have a creature/item catch on fire (per the DMG) if the Thoqqua came on contact with it. This would mostly be applicable to wooden weapons if used on the Thoqqua (I would not consider natural or metal weapons “flammable”).
For the “Burn” ability:
As with the Alchemist’s Fire discussion in the earlier part of this thread, this again seems to contradict the DMG catching on fire rules. And to make matters worse, it specifically references those rules in the description.
Point 1: The save DC is 13 here but 15 in the DMG for catching on fire. This is not a big deal, but it leaves open the question as to whether or not any subsequent saves use this DC or the DMG DC. I would normally rule that this governs only the initial chance to catch on fire, and then once on fire use the DMG rules, but that brings us to point 2:
Point 2: Once “on fire”, the fire only burns for 1d4 rounds, if not extinguished sooner. There is no limit in the DMG rules. There, the fire burns until extinguished (or, logically, it totally consumes what it is burning: i.e., the creature is dead).
In the earlier Alchemist’s Fire discussion, the other posters seemed to agree that the time limit on Alchemist’s Fire damage does not refer to or apply to “catching on fire” damage. Instead, the “alchemist’s fire” damage could ignite the “normal” catching on fire sequence, which would continue indefinitely until extinguished. This makes a certain amount of logical sense. But if we apply that here, then catching on fire from the Thoqqua’s burn would have to be considered differently from “normal” catching on fire. This does not seem to be the intent with the reference to the DMG rules and use of the same terminology.
Point 3: the Thoqqua rules state that a creature can use a full-round action to put out the flames. Does this mean the flames are automatically extinguished (as it seems to) or does it refer to attempting to put out the flames per the DMG? Where each round you get a “free” reflex save to extinguish the flames but by specifically attempting to extinguish them you get a second save attempt?
The biggest problem I see is that the rules in the Thoqqua’s entry are different than the DMG’s rules, but yet directly reference the DMG. Trying to integrate the two still leaves some ambiguities. Personally, it seems to me that the people writing the rules in the PHB, DMG, and MM did not correspond closely enough.
If there is an ‘official’ or ‘standard’ way for handling this, please let me know.
Oh yes, also: if you use the ruling that weapons are damaged when attacking a Thoqqua, and the DMG catch on fire rules (burns indefinitely)
I thought I’d resurrect this thread to discuss the Thoqqua:
According to the MM, the Thoqqua has the following abilities:
Heat (Ex): Merely touching or being touched by a thoqqua automatically deals 2d6 fire damage.
and
Burn (Ex): When a thoqqua hits with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 13) or catch fire. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds if not extinguished sooner. The burning creature can use a full-round action to put out the flame (see page 86 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more information on catching on fire).
For the “Heat” ability:
I would rule that this damage would be taken by any weapon (natural or otherwise) used to attack the Thoqqua. Specifically, on any successful attack not only would the Thoqqua take damage, but the weapon used would also take fire damage from the Thoqqua.
I would also rule that this heat damage would be sufficient to have a creature/item catch on fire (per the DMG) if the Thoqqua came on contact with it. This would mostly be applicable to wooden weapons if used on the Thoqqua (I would not consider natural or metal weapons “flammable”).
For the “Burn” ability:
As with the Alchemist’s Fire discussion in the earlier part of this thread, this again seems to contradict the DMG catching on fire rules. And to make matters worse, it specifically references those rules in the description.
Point 1: The save DC is 13 here but 15 in the DMG for catching on fire. This is not a big deal, but it leaves open the question as to whether or not any subsequent saves use this DC or the DMG DC. I would normally rule that this governs only the initial chance to catch on fire, and then once on fire use the DMG rules, but that brings us to point 2:
Point 2: Once “on fire”, the fire only burns for 1d4 rounds, if not extinguished sooner. There is no limit in the DMG rules. There, the fire burns until extinguished (or, logically, it totally consumes what it is burning: i.e., the creature is dead).
In the earlier Alchemist’s Fire discussion, the other posters seemed to agree that the time limit on Alchemist’s Fire damage does not refer to or apply to “catching on fire” damage. Instead, the “alchemist’s fire” damage could ignite the “normal” catching on fire sequence, which would continue indefinitely until extinguished. This makes a certain amount of logical sense. But if we apply that here, then catching on fire from the Thoqqua’s burn would have to be considered differently from “normal” catching on fire. This does not seem to be the intent with the reference to the DMG rules and use of the same terminology.
Point 3: the Thoqqua rules state that a creature can use a full-round action to put out the flames. Does this mean the flames are automatically extinguished (as it seems to) or does it refer to attempting to put out the flames per the DMG? Where each round you get a “free” reflex save to extinguish the flames but by specifically attempting to extinguish them you get a second save attempt?
The biggest problem I see is that the rules in the Thoqqua’s entry are different than the DMG’s rules, but yet directly reference the DMG. Trying to integrate the two still leaves some ambiguities. Personally, it seems to me that the people writing the rules in the PHB, DMG, and MM did not correspond closely enough.
If there is an ‘official’ or ‘standard’ way for handling this, please let me know.
Oh yes, also: if you use the ruling that weapons are damaged when attacking a Thoqqua, and the DMG catch on fire rules (burns indefinitely)
Last edited:
