[CD] Vigor Spells

[Liquidsabre]

These series of spells are reprints of the Masters of the Wild "regenerate" spells and the FR "Remedy" spell versions. With a potentially fatal flaw IMHO. Previous versions (including the recent FR Player's Guide which endorsed "Remedy Mod Wnds" version) included the stipulation: "only heals dmg taken during the duration of spell". The new Vigor versions omit this sentence.

[1st, 2nd Lvl Caster] Cure Light Wounds (1d8+2 Hp).
[1st, 2nd Lvl Caster] Vigor, Lesser (12 Hp).

[3rd, 6th Lvl Caster] Cure Serious Wounds (3d8+6 Hp)
[3rd, 6th Lvl Caster] Vigor (32 Hp)

Now these spells simply provide the fast heal ability for the duration of the spell. Not so good for combat perhaps but the Vigor spells now provide the ultimate after-battle healing spells, relegating the Cure spells to in-combat only spells. Just was wondering if anyone had thought this an interesting change. I've been offline for a few weeks now so I apologze in advance if I'd missed this discussion before. Point me in the right direction if need be.

 

[the Jester]

It simplifies bookkeeping enough that I will now use the spells.

 

[morbiczer]

You can't cast these spontaniously.

But they would be really good to put into a wand for using it after battle.

 

[mmu1]

You can't cast them spontaneously, sure - but you can always convert them to a Cure spell if you want, so memorizing them is not that big of a chore.

I'd never allow them IMC, actually - they're too good as is, and completely overpowered when used with Extend Spell - especially at higher levels.

 

[Saeviomagy]

They are so good when put into a wand that it's not funny.

Basically they double the average amount of healing you get from a wand (instead of 5.5 healing per charge, you get 11).

 

[drunkmoogle]

The primary disadvantage of the Vigors is that it does not immediately revive fallen characters. A character may have to wait a few rounds to get kicking, while a CXW could get them up and running. Time may also be of grave importance in some scenarios.

Of course, if you're a [good] cleric, you don't care. This spell is a no brainer for wands if you have a Cleric/Druid and have time to burn.

 

[Liquidsabre]

You can't cast them spontaneously, sure - but you can always convert them to a Cure spell if you want, so memorizing them is not that big of a chore.

I'd never allow them IMC, actually - they're too good as is, and completely overpowered when used with Extend Spell - especially at higher levels.

I hadn't gotten as far Extend Spell, just think what Persistent Spell would do then, ack. Nothing like 24 hours of fast heal 1.

I'm guessing the only way I'd allow these spells into the game would be to reinstate the "heals only the damage sustained during the duration of the spell" bit that was snipped out. This brings the spell back to combat utility but again faces the problem of no use out of combat.

I am left at a quandry as to how to make these spells halfway useful. The only thing I can think of is to simply make an alternate casting version of a Cure Spell that can be used out of combat that simply maximizes the HPs cured but at a rate of 1 HP/min or something along those lines.

I'm afraid that I'll just have to dump these spells altogether much to my player's unhappiness.

 

[Vanye]

I hadn't gotten as far Extend Spell, just think what Persistent Spell would do then, ack. Nothing like 24 hours of fast heal 1.

Unless I'm misremembering completely, the 3.5 revamp of Persistent Spell keeps the requirement that it be a non-touch spell; this spell (and it's variants) are all touch spells, and thus not eligible for Persistent status.

 

[Silveras]

Unless I'm misremembering completely, the 3.5 revamp of Persistent Spell keeps the requirement that it be a non-touch spell; this spell (and it's variants) are all touch spells, and thus not eligible for Persistent status.

The revised Persistent Spell requires that the spell be Personal or fixed range, and it cannot be Instantaneous or "until discharged", so that does block the Persistent Vigor. Nope you can't give yourself perpetual Greater/{normal}/Lesser Vigor.

Of course, Mass Lesser Vigor and Vigorous Circle are a) fixed range, b) non-Instantaneous, and c) not discharged. They are eligible for Persistent Spell (and Mass Lesser Vigor would "only" need a 9th level slot). 1 9th level spell slot to give up to 1 creature/level fast healing 1 all day ? Ok.

Of course, then there's Divine Metamagic. Pay off the increased slot cost with Turn Undead uses, instead. You'd need a nice, high Charisma and/or Extra Turning + Divine Metamagic + Extend Spell + Persistent Spell, but a human character *could* do it at 6th level (I think).

In addition to the e-mails for errata I have been sending to WotC, I sent a version of this one into the Sage. Basically, I was asking if the built-in limit of 15/25/40 rounds would "trump" the use of Extend Spell (and hopefully, by extension, Persistent Spell).

 

[jodyjohnson]

They don't stack. They take a long time (in combat terms). The total healing potential doesn't mean much if you're dead before it's halfway done.

If time isn't a factor then it doesn't matter much how the healing is done: whether CLW wand or Vigor wand. We could always go back to the good old days when you spiked yourself into a side room for a week or two between every 2-4 combats < those were the days.