Ceramic DM - Spring 2005 (Late Bloomer) - Signups complete

[alsih2o]

Because I'm pretty certain that I can find reading, critiquing, and judging time when it's needed.

I'm not so certain that I can find writing time.

I don't think you will find your way to judging this way.

I personally frown heavily on allowing anyone to judge who has not participated heavily. If you are not judging the only way to participate is by writing.

If you think judging takes significantly less time than writing you are sorely mistaken, and probably not ready to judge. Judging is doen after multiple reads of each story AND requires writing in and of itself. Writing about every story, which is twice as many finished pieces. 8,12 or 16 contestants in the opening round and the judges have to write a judgement on every one. No CDM author writes as much as a judge.

The exception to this being Maldur, who turns in intuitive, snap judgements and has been involved since Ceramic DM 1.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So, if I may be so bold, why don't you read and comment to your leisure without being a judge?

I plan on doing that anyway!

It just so happened that the organizer thought he might need an extra judge on-hand for emergencies. The emergency judge became a real judge when the size of the contest expanded. It seems to me that keeping an emergency judge on-hand is still a good idea.

I didn't see anyone else offering, so I did.

I don't think you will find your way to judging this way.

I personally frown heavily on allowing anyone to judge who has not participated heavily. If you are not judging the only way to participate is by writing.

If you think judging takes significantly less time than writing you are sorely mistaken, and probably not ready to judge.

You are perfectly welcome to your opinion.

I do not appreciate the more personal aspersions you've decided to toss in, lacking any knowledge whatsoever of any qualifications I might possess.

When I write for fun, I take a *long* time. While I'm certain that speed writing contests could improve my skill (and I have participated in such in the past), they aren't as much fun for me as taking my own pace.

However, I currently work at a consulting firm, where I spend a lot of time as an editor of other people's work. I am often the "Go-to Guy" in the office when it is time to write something that gets submitted to the clients. I have been published - under the corporate name - in trade magazines.

In short, I'm not exactly a clueless newb when it comes to these things - and I thought "emergency judge" seemed like an excellent way to apply my own skills to a contest I otherwise would be unable to directly participate in.

So, for *me*, judging would most certainly take less time than writing for the contest - and, actually, I kinda sorry I volunteered.

That being said, I'll still kibosh when the actual participants post their tales.

 

[yangnome]

Look forward to seeing your comments Patryn. I've only done this once, and was knocked out in teh first round, but I really would have liked to see more comments on my work.

 

[mythago]

I do not appreciate the more personal aspersions you've decided to toss in, lacking any knowledge whatsoever of any qualifications I might possess.

Am I reading the same post you are? I didn't see anyting about "aspersions" or "qualifications."

Though one of the more useful qualifications for either writer or judge is a thick skin.

 

[Speaker]

Friday, followed by wednesday works great.

It's been a while since I last wrote... all that creative potential stored up, waiting for the rusting seams to give way...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Am I reading the same post you are? I didn't see anyting about "aspersions" or "qualifications."

That would be explaining to me that I might need to read each entry more than once when judging, as well as intimating that I had no clue that judging may take some time, as well.

Obviously, I'm clueless, eh?

Naw, I'm just a much faster *judge* than I am a *writer*. As in, I write critical pieces much faster than I write creative pieces.

Though one of the more useful qualifications for either writer or judge is a thick skin.

On the other hand, one of the qualifications for being an organizer is the ability to politely say, "No thanks." I'd've accepted that.

And, anyway, like I said, I'll still be reading the stories as they're posted and participating in the discussion.

 

[mythago]

That would be explaining to me that I might need to read each entry more than once when judging, as well as intimating that I had no clue that judging may take some time, as well.

No, you *inferred* that you were being told you were "clueless" and a "newb," terms which appeared nowhere in the original post. You also decided to infer that you were being personally insulted and that your ability to judge competition entries was being denigrated, something that also was never said.

You didn't state any qualifications when you volunteered. You haven't participated in Ceramic DM before. All that you really stated was your willingness to help out, which is very nice, but followed with the misconception that it takes less time to judge these things than write. alsih2o, having done both rather extensively, disagreed.

It's great to jump in and add to the ambience with commentary, but getting snippy because you didn't feel you were refused graciously enough, and then reading all kinds of insults into the refusal, is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Berandor]

In the everlasting words of Keanu Reeves: Whoa!

Can we come back to the contest, and to contestants insulting each other in trash-talk? That's just so much more fun!



Firelance, get ready for a cold shower that will douse your fire and shrink your... ahem... lance.

 

[Hellefire]

Berandor,

It's a pity you are on the wrong side of Germany. I will be heading back to Europe with my Polish girlfriend and our baby in a few months. There we live in Poznan, about center between Berlin and Warsaw.

I had hoped we could get together and share a pint while admiring my CDM trophy. Loser buys, right?

Aaron

 

[Berandor]

There's a trophy now?

How about when we meet, we write our entries in German, Hellefire? And MacBeth already nicknamed me "Beer and Door"...

 

[Macbeth]

And MacBeth already nicknamed me "Beer and Door"...

I even had a picture to match!

 

[MarauderX]

However, I currently work at a consulting firm, where I spend a lot of time as an editor of other people's work. I am often the "Go-to Guy" in the office when it is time to write something that gets submitted to the clients. I have been published - under the corporate name - in trade magazines.

Cool. Which trade mags? I write & edit technical info a lot and I am always reading for ways to improve. I wish I could write technical documents faster than CDM and for that I envy you.

I think alsih2o is correct; if you don't have the time to write, you probably won't have the time I want you to spend judging the stories. I think alsih2o wants what is best for the contestants and I didn't see where alish2o's personal aspersions (is that redundant?) were in his comments.

Adding commentary is always free, and I'll take as many critiques as I can get. Just because you don't vote as a judge doesn't mean I don't value what you say, especially as a peer writer. Join in the contest, have some fun cranking out a few yarns with disparate pictures that befuddle the best of us.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Cool. Which trade mags? I write & edit technical info a lot and I am always reading for ways to improve. I wish I could write technical documents faster than CDM and for that I envy you.

Air freight trade mags, like Air Cargo World. I've acted as the internal editor on articles that went to others, as well, but I don't recall which off the top of my head. The articles tend to focus on things like shipper studies, supply / demand forecasts, analyses of new airframes, etc.

I think alsih2o is correct; if you don't have the time to write, you probably won't have the time I want you to spend judging the stories.

Again, that's largely because of the difference in my writing speeds when I'm doing "creative" vs. "technical." Judging, to me, is largely technical - though you do need to be able to understand and appreciate the creative aspects, of course.

Take, for instance, the Iron DM judgements (which I'm currently following). That style of writing is something that would take me a couple of hours to do (which is not meant to reflect on Carpe's talents at all; I've no idea how long it takes him to judge). I would be very, very hard pressed to write a suitable adventure in even double the time.

I realize what's involved in judging pieces of writing. I went back and read through several past judgements, from different judges, to make sure it was something I was comfortable writing. I noticed the trend towards increasingly erudite, sophisticated, and, well, literary judgements, going from the initial rounds' "Both stories are good, but X wins" to a detailed analysis, point by point, of each story. I realize that reading each piece multiple times is required. I did not volunteer just to volunteer, but because I did my homework and decided it was something I could provide some meaningful insight on.

I figued if BSF decided that an additional, emergency judge (which he had originally planned on including, before Macbeth was seconded) was necessary, I'd provide some credentials. If he didn't there really wasn't much reason to post them here, meager as they are.

Adding commentary is always free, and I'll take as many critiques as I can get. Just because you don't vote as a judge doesn't mean I don't value what you say, especially as a peer writer. Join in the contest, have some fun cranking out a few yarns with disparate pictures that befuddle the best of us.

I'm seriously looking forward to this round's stories - yours and everyone else's. The selection of previous CDM stories I've read have been very entertaining; I expect this round will be no different.

Good luck to all participants!

 

[Berandor]

I think the best way would be just to comment on stories at first without official titles, so contest runners as well as contestants can see whether they feel comfortable with your style.

Not that I saked them when I judged, of course

 

[carpedavid]

Take, for instance, the Iron DM judgements (which I'm currently following). That style of writing is something that would take me a couple of hours to do (which is not meant to reflect on Carpe's talents at all; I've no idea how long it takes him to judge). I would be very, very hard pressed to write a suitable adventure in even double the time.

That's an interesting question. Since I'm in the Iron DM judging chair now, I'm pretty curious as to how much time the other judges (for both tournaments) spend on judging. Currently, I'm producing judgments between 1500 and 2500 words, which takes me about four to six hours. That times includes reading both entries three to four times, researching the technical portions of the entries, some contemplation, and the write up.

Four to six hours is about the same amount of time that I would spend on an Iron DM entry when I was competing. Ceramic DM is a different story, though. I spent about three times as long on my entries, spread out over the course of multiple days. I'm not sure how long it would take me to judge said entries, though. That's why I'd like to find out from the other judges how long it takes them.

In other words, how slow am I?

 

[ThirdWizard]

In other words, how slow am I?

I have no judging experience, but a few times I have tried my hand at writing an adventure for Iron DM just for the fun of it, even though I have not participated. Generally, it takes me about 8 hours to write one adventure (which is much faster than my actual adventures). But, then again, I don't have to agonize over the details, because noone will ever see the entries.

I would probably take longer to judge than you (and for a lower quality). I read very slowly. Reading an entry can take me 20 minutes in itself. Just reading just one entry four times - for detail - would take me over an hour.

I write twice as fast as I read. Hmm that's kinda weird come to think of it.

 

[alsih2o]

On the other hand, one of the qualifications for being an organizer is the ability to politely say, "No thanks." I'd've accepted that.

And, anyway, like I said, I'll still be reading the stories as they're posted and participating in the discussion.

Seems I got right by your qualification. I have ahd to post this almost every contest.

I managed to create, organize and see blossom the contest without your qualifications I guess.

I think you also just gave up your right to cast about about aspersions.

My word stands, I will stand against anyone judging who has not participated long term. Period.

And the fact that you think you will write judgemnts faster does not mitigate the fact that you would have to write MANY times as many pieces.

You can complain about me and my aspersions all you want. The rules stand.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Dude, what's your problem? Does this look familiar?

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=551833

I mean, seriously, I volunteered to help BSF out because it seemed like the sort of thing a good community member would do. I did it to be friendly.

What's with the attitude?

 

[BSF]

Hey folks,
Look, I like both of you. I don't really want to see both of you arguing this back and forth though. I mean, c'mon, both of you like the art of writing in general. Certainly none of us would be in this thread if we didn't like writing. Please, let us focus more on what our similarities of opinion are rather than our differences.

To drag this back toward Ceramic DM relevant topics, how about a little sharing of writing resources for everyone?

One of the things I have really admired watching Berandor write is the way he has improved his grasp of the english language. Please keep in mind folks that english is a second language for Berandor. You can see the growth of his writing style from his earlier stories. I know Berandor posted some of the websites he used for reference. Perhaps he would be willing to share them again? What do you say Berandor?

As I recall, one of Mythago's favorite books on writing is 'Eats, shoot and leaves'. It is an excellent resource for punctuation. I might add it is a resource I should go through again to improve my own writing.

What other resources do you use? What helps you to become a better writer?

 

[Bibliophile]

Personally, I've recently picked up Orson Scott Card's greatd book "How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy." It's fantastic, and makes a lot of excellent points for an ameteur writer.