Ceramic DM - Spring 2005 (Late Bloomer) - Signups complete

[Berandor]

First off, thank you.

When I get home, I'll have a look at how many of those sites survived my hard disk crash (you know how you got hundreds of bookmarks, all gone, and can only remember half a dozen?). But what I can say right now (or "How to write English like a German would"):

William Strunck's (sp?) "Elements of Style" is *the* best resource I know. Barsoomcore led me to it, and I must say it's a great little book.
Of course, I use a translator, a glossary, and Word's thesaurus.

Eatshootsandleaves I'll take a look at, too

With regards to judging time, it probably took me around 5-6 hours for each judgement. I read the story once without making notes, then another 1-2 times making notes. Then I composed my judgement (and I probably need a little more time writing English than most of you). Finally, there was the half-hour anxiety attack whether to send the judgement or not (as I surely overlooked some important element)

 

[alsih2o]

Dude, what's your problem? Does this look familiar?



What's with the attitude?

Don't imply anything, make your point directly, please.

My attitude consisted of a clear explanation fo the rules. You decided to take that personally and try backtalk. A clear violation of the rules.

How do think that helps?

Please, drop the implication and explain what point you think you have.

I see the beginnings of a contest started 3 years ago, the beginnings of an evolution that has brought us where we are today. The beginnings of 100's of hours of work on my part.

What exactly do you see there that makes your point? And what is your point? Please.

 

[Berandor]

Dude, what's your problem? Does this look familiar?

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=551833

I mean, seriously, I volunteered to help BSF out because it seemed like the sort of thing a good community member would do. I did it to be friendly.

What's with the attitude?

Dude, I just followed that link. I was willing to cut you some slack, because I really thought you just wanted to help out, and I admired that. It's a good thing to do, and to offer.

But wow. Are you honestly trying to say that you, having written not a single word in previous Ceramic DMs that I can tell, are somehow better than alsih2o, without whom this contest wouldn't even exist, who has spent I don't know how many hours scouring the web for pics, and generally held this thing together for two years and thirteen contests now?

Or are you insinuating that alsih2o doesn't spend time on his judgements?

I mean, really, you shouldn't go talking like that when you've got nothing to show for yourself. Also, look at Maldur's judgements. He makes snap decisions that I imagine have frustrated more than one contestant - he's a cipher But what's more important: Comparing your judgements (which we haven't seen yet) to alsih2o's. There's no point to it. Ceramic DM is his baby. And he wants judges to make informed and (in my case overly) lengthy judgements. That has nothing to do with his style of judging, nothing at all.


Finally, bad-mouthing a judge is just rude. That's not to say you cannot question a judgement, or discuss it. But we're all happy the judges are willing to put in the time they do for making this contest work, and doubly so for the contest "manager" (all too often alsih2o).

I really, really don't want to have such argument in this thread, and almost think the contest itself should get a new one to make it "carefree" again. But you crossed a line here, from disagreement to rudeness. And that needs to be put a stop to.


If you want to flame, go to Nothingland, create a link to this thread and flame away. Or, if you have another problem, at least come out and say it directly. ETA: To top it off, the post is from 2002, one of the first (if not the first) contests. You couldn't find a cheaper shot, could you?

I was really looking forward to your comments, and I'm always happy when new faces show up in here. But you have to know to behave, at least mantain a basic amount of courtesy and civility. The post above is just... wrong.

 

[Macbeth]

Let's not have anymore discussion of this, okay? I think BSF asked that we move on to more CDM related stuff, which seems like a reasonable request. If this disucssion really must continue, move it to another thread.

Anyway, what I use for writing? Well... reading mostly. Ihave this horrible habit of moving into the style of whatever I last read. Art Memoir was very much in the style of Chuck Palahniuk. Grow (at least I think that it was called, I can never remember my titles) was in the style of some of Gaimen's Sandman. Distortion (name?) was kind of in the flavor of American Gods. I always try to never directly steal anything, never edge over into plagarism, but I always tend to find myself writting in the style of whatever I last read. Generally it works well for me, and forces me to write in a fairly broad range of styles. I'd like to think that Grow and Art Memoir have very little in common style wise.

As for more direct writing resources? Well, I still have clear memories of High School english (only a couple of years ago for me), and I'm taking a Cerative Writing course this fall. I really hsould read some of these things others have mentioned, but I find that I'm at my best by just readig a lot and trying to absorb why I like what I like.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Perhaps the posters in the above contretemps could be imposed upon to edit out their remarks. This is a fun contest for the audience as well as the participants, and I think they'd rather read the stories, the commentary, and the trash-talk in that order.

Wow....I finally got to use contretemps in a sentence. And in a place I won't get mocked for it.

 

[Berandor]

You're right, of course. Reading a lot of probably the best resource for writing. I learn a lot from reading books; often I stop and think, "Wow, that's really well done/well written. I must keep that in mind."

Or course, I also learn a lot from other writers's mistakes. When I feel something doesn't work the way it was intended to, I try to find out why, and make a mental note.

That's an often-neglected benefit of Ceramic DM: I got to read a lot of great stories with different styles, showing me where I could improve.

 

[Berandor]

Perhaps the posters in the above contretemps could be imposed upon to edit out their remarks. This is a fun contest for the audience as well as the participants, and I think they'd rather read the stories, the commentary, and the trash-talk in that order.

Wow....I finally got to use contretemps in a sentence. And in a place I won't get mocked for it.

Ha ha! *points and mocks*

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I've always had the hardest time with dialogue. I find it difficult to write a conversation and not have both side sound the same, or to have it be too verbose. I find having the television on in the background helps -- the ebb and flow of the talking helps me stay in a rhythm.

I would also highly recommend Elements of Style. My English-major uncle gave me a copy when I started high school, and it had an immediate and positive impact on my writing, and that has paid off in spades through college and into my career.

The other tool I find indispensible for Ceramic DM is Google. I like stories that have that extra bit of detail that makes them seem real, and I think in the past contests that has served me well. Being able to quickly find facts and figures and such when in a time crunch is wonderful. Even if I do sometimes pick the wrong bridge.....

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Ha ha! *points and mocks*

"How clever, Mr. Beer-and-door," Rodrigo drolly observed as he scribbled in his judging notebook.

 

[Berandor]

You remember the bridge thing?

It was still a great story! I have honestly thought about buying "Red Star" (or whatever the Russian Psi-Corps RPG is called that Teflon Billy reviewed) just on the basis of that story.

 

[Macbeth]

Ah Yes, Google.

I use it for reaserch.

I use it for names.

Sometimes, it even makes a decent spellchecker.

 

[Maldur]

*waves judging stick around very dangerously*

I need something to judge or someone gets hurt !

 

[BSF]

Perhaps the posters in the above contretemps could be imposed upon to edit out their remarks. This is a fun contest for the audience as well as the participants, and I think they'd rather read the stories, the commentary, and the trash-talk in that order.

Wow....I finally got to use contretemps in a sentence. And in a place I won't get mocked for it.

Your intent is well meant Rodrigo, but I would prefer that they stay in place. Judging is something that comes up frequently and Alsih2o has always been clear on his stance. I would not ask him to back down from that and edit anything. Disagreements can be uncomfortable, but they are an aspect of the growth of the contest in general.


Patryn, I appreciate your offer and I kindly refused it. Alsih2o is trying to be very clear, as he always is, what his feelings on judging are. If you want to judge, you need to participate as a writer first. That is the primary qualification required. "If you are a previous competitor and are willing to write critiques," is what I asked for. You do not qualify in the context of that request. That is why I encouraged you to volunteer as a writer first.

Don't take it so personally.

Obviously I could stand to update the FAQ on this one.

Who are these judges?
The judges will shift over time. As I said, they are volunteers. Some of them are past Ceramic DM winners. Some of them have judged many contests. Each individual contest may have different judges.

Alsih2o, let me know how you want me to update that particular FAQ entry.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Patryn, I appreciate your offer and I kindly refused it.

And, again, thank you for that. I read the FAQ, which you mention below, before I volunteered to see if there were any particular hard-and-fast requirements, and I didn't see any.

As for refusals, "Thanks for offering, but we require that you have prior Ceramic DM experience before judging," is fine. This is more-or-less what you said. This is a clear, concise statement based on observable facts. No, I don't have any CDM experience, and therefore disqualifying me based on this is acceptable.

"You don't know what you're doing," is not acceptable. It is based on an incomplete data set - chiefly, the poster's knowledge of me. Apart from what I have posted in this thread, no one on this board has the slightest clue what my qualifications may be. As far as anyone could prove, I was an award-winning author, editor for a major national publication, and all-around swell guy. I'm not, but no one else knew that when they made the claim - and therefore it is not a valid criticism.

 

[alsih2o]

"You don't know what you're doing," is not acceptable. .

Surel, working for a publication as you have you know better than to use quotes when there is no quote of the sort, yes?

Please, when putting word in my mouth, be able to cite the quote. My posts are uneditted, I invite you to point out this quote from me.

I will spare the audience my long list of qualifications, as that was just tacky.

 

[BSF]

"You don't know what you're doing," is not acceptable. It is based on an incomplete data set - chiefly, the poster's knowledge of me.

Patryn,
I am not seeing that quote written anywhere here. You are inferring more than was written. Please refrain from such things.

 

[Henry]

Uh, gents? Is it possible to come to some sort of agreement, or take if to e-mail if it really needs to be hashed out? I understand if there's a need to do so, but there's no need for the contest to suffer in the process.

 

[Hellefire]

Um, excuse me.

EXCUSE ME!!!!

Would you people *PLEASE* stop trying to hijack *MY* thread so I can get on with winning *MY* CDM????

To-to-toDAY Junior!

Aaron

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Please, when putting word in my mouth, be able to cite the quote.

It's called paraphrasing.

The full quote is:

If you think judging takes significantly less time than writing you are sorely mistaken, and probably not ready to judge. Judging is doen after multiple reads of each story AND requires writing in and of itself. Writing about every story, which is twice as many finished pieces. 8,12 or 16 contestants in the opening round and the judges have to write a judgement on every one. No CDM author writes as much as a judge.

Sorry, but explaining the judging process - including the fact that I might need to read the entries multiple times! - is implying that I do not know what is involved. I read through the archives. I have a pretty good idea what is required of judging; I noticed the change in tenor of the judging from the earliest rounds to the most recent contest.

The point of my earlier post - which, yes, I should have more explicitly stated - is that you should not judge the qualifications of a person to judge based on a single post. Would you allow someone whose comments equated to your initial judging to judge now? Probably not. However, I daresay you think you're a pretty good judge - and, from reading the archives, I'd agree with that.

I understand your desire to keep this contest great. I volunteered, BSF turned me down, and that should have been the end of things. It wasn't, because you felt the need to discuss my qualifications apart from observable fact.

Now, maybe it's just me, but if somone volunteers to help me with something, and I don't want or need their help, then my answer is "No, thank you." Possibly, I might go so far as to say, "No, thanks, I got it," or maybe, "Nah - you need to be able to read Bocchi to handle this. Do you know Bocchi?"

That's what I call common courtesy.

And, now, back to your regularly scheduled trash talking.

EDIT: And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

"Nah - you need to be able to read Bocchi to handle this. Do you know Bocchi?"

Well, it *is* like a second language to me.....