Challenge! I want to convert your concept!

- I am a deadly assassin. I lurk in the shadows, unheard and unseen, oberving and tracking my target for days and weeks until I get the opportunity to strike. I never fail in my missions; whether my target is a king, a warrior, or a wizard I am able to penetrate their defenses, kill quickly, and escape without leaving a trail. My weapons are many: I am as adept with the heavy blade as I am with a crossbow, for I kill in close and from afar. Poison and death magics are my friend, for I know ways to kill that do not leave marks or traces.

Fun game! =)

Brutal Scoundrel Rogue with Master Infiltrator or Shadow Assassin. Take a feat or two to use other weapons (Or just be sufficiently skilled that you can use weapons regardless of proficiency). For ways to kill that do not leave marks, you might MC to Warlock, which adds a number of bits of trickery.

-Cross
 

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sanock42 said:
This isn't a fair concept to build, because it relies a bit too heavily on splat books. 4e now is like 3.0 core. Obviously they've released a bunch of new rules with 3.x books that allow for more character concepts, but playing an arcane necromancer without Libris Mortis is about as sad.

I could just as easily suggest a concept of a cleric who has a god that sustains his protection indefinitely, allowing him to become a divine instrument that is unstoppable... but 3.x only allowed that with Divine Metamagic and Persistant Spell.... feats that didn't show up until years later.

Granted, this is such an old argument that I can't believe I'm contributing to it, but I had to start posting sometime! ;)

How is this not fair? You can make a necromancer in 3.5. It was more fun and had more options with books like Librus Mortis, Spell Compedium, and Heroes of Horror, but you could do it with core. Obviously, you can't do it with 4th edition until they make a necromancer class.
 

Allow me to note that most (but not all) of Olgar's ideas can be done, given a character of sufficient level.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a spellcaster who uses the powers of nature -- animals, plants, and the elements -- to do my bidding. I can call down a storm of ice or lightning, blow my opponents' arrows away with a gust of wind, or cause the plants at their feet to grow and entangle them. I can speak to animals and get them to do my bidding.

Wizard or Warlock... Be sure to pick appropriate element-based spells -- Cold, Lightning and Thunder-based spells especially. Other spells can have flavor text adjusted. Mordenkainen's Sword, for example, can be changed from a sword of crackling golden force into a spectral animal that attacks your foes. Likewise Bigby's Grasping Hands could become spectral bears or some such. Blur conjures up a whirlwind of dust that swirls around you, and Mirror Image encases you in a sheathe of hot air that makes your image waver and double like a mirage in the desert. Evard's Black Tentacles becomes Evard's Entangling Vines.

At 11th Level be sure to take the Spellstorm Mage paragon path.

Also, rituals will help a lot... Animal Messenger, Commune with Nature and Mount, for example. Many of the non-nature Rituals can be carefully re-flavored as well, if you're willing.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a master of dread arcane magics, using the dead to do my bidding. I raid graveyards to animate the corpses of the dead, who serve as my swords and shields, while with my spells I rip the life force from the living and feed on it, speeding my transition to undeath.

I'll admit, that's one that will likely have to wait. Though, there are quite a few necrotic spells already.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a wandering minstrel, who tells stories and performed for the masses. My gilded tongue and skill with the lute enables me to encourage friends and captivate foes. In a pinch, I can survive through my skill with a blade, by the deft lift of a few coins, or by beguiling another with a bit of distracting illusion magic.

You're a Warlord who likes to sing. In battle, instead of commanding your friends with tactics, you inspire them with song to the same effect. Make sure you have a decent Charisma (the gilded tongue) and Dexterity (the deft lift). Consider taking the Jack of All Trades feat. Dabble in some Wizard (A Fey-pact Warlockwould also work very well -- with more charm and illusion-based spells) cross-training during the heroic tier, and going full-on multiclass during the Paragon levels.

If you happen to be a half-elf (best race for it), choose the Wizard's Prestidigitation as your Dillettente ability, and take Group Insight as a feat.

Don't forget the rituals.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a subtle master of the arcane arts. I use mind-magic to warp the thoughts of others, causing them to do my bidding even when they don't realize it. I eschew the flash-bang wizardry of most arcanists and prefer to work from the shadows.

Fey Pact Warlock.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm an honored warrior who has forsaken material aids such as armor and blades to focus on honing my very body as a weapon. I can halt or turn the strongest blow while my fists and feet can strike hard and true no matter that my foe defends with sword and shield. My mental focus is such that I can even penetrate magical defenses and shrug off magical attacks.

Simply a Fighter, Ranger or perhaps Rogue (depending on your style) who uses unarmed attacks... Focus on abilities that invoke conditions, force movement or attack against a non-AC defense.

It could take many levels to actually get as good at it as your description suggests.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I am a deadly assassin. I lurk in the shadows, unheard and unseen, oberving and tracking my target for days and weeks until I get the opportunity to strike. I never fail in my missions; whether my target is a king, a warrior, or a wizard I am able to penetrate their defenses, kill quickly, and escape without leaving a trail. My weapons are many: I am as adept with the heavy blade as I am with a crossbow, for I kill in close and from afar. Poison and death magics are my friend, for I know ways to kill that do not leave marks or traces.

A Rogue who dabbles in Fighter or Ranger. Alternatively, dabble in Wizard or Warlock, while spending a few feats on weapon proficiencies*.

Master Infiltrator, Shadow Assassin, or full multiclassing secondary class at Paragon Levels.

Note that weapon proficiencies are strictly necessary, as anyone can now use any weapon without penalty... You just don't gain the listed attack bonus, if you aren't proficient.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I am a servant of the gods. I spread my message of enlightenment wherever I go. I am not a warrior of steel; I am a warrior of words and the mind. Though I wear but simple robes and carry but a common yew staff, I can halt armies through the power of my faith. My knowledge is deep; I can answer any question given access to the right tomes, and failing that I can gain the answers from the gods themselves.

A Cleric who doesn't wear armor and swings a quarterstaff. Reference the suggested for the "Devoted Cleric" build in the PHB. Pick feats like Linguist, Jack of All Trades, or Skill Focus (any of the "knowledge" skills). Get lots of rituals, especially those focused on divination.

Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I am a battlemancer. I draw my mystic power from battle itself, using magic with blade, bow, and shield to make me an unstoppable foe. As I raise my mystic defenses and armor of force, I can halt one set of foes with a gesture while destroying another with blasts of fire and lightning. I can charge into whirling melee, trusting my armor and magic to defend me while I channel arcane forces through my blade and lay my foes to waste. Should my arcane power be defeated or denied, I can still carry the day with my mastery of steel.

Any combination of martial + arcane multiclassing could feasibly do this in 4E, especially at paragon levels.
 
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What about my character? Are you going to conveniantly ignore those that you would otherwise fail to convert effectively?

Let me make it easier for you: He's an evil wizard with superhuman intelligence who plots world domination via dark supernatural magic and minions. He is the archatypical villain who sits in his dark tower waiting for the heroes to drop by so they can be vanquished and he can laugh manically. If 4E can't fullfill this archetype, I worry about the game.
 
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sanock42 said:
This isn't a fair concept to build, because it relies a bit too heavily on splat books.

Welcome to the boards. The OP said he could build any concept that could be done in 3.x. Submitting classic archetypes like the warrior/wizard is well within acceptable topics.

Anyhow, here are my own. I would like to see some triple threats built in the 4E system (Actual threats. Half the spellcasting of a mage of your level does not a legitimate threat make.)

- I am the essence of deadliness. Blending magical prowess, stealth, and skill at arms, I strike swiftly and terminate my opponents before they have a chance to react. I can deal either potent magical damage or devastating strikes, depending on which is better suited to the situation. I can damage anything, even things normally resistant to one or both of these methods.

- I am the essence of preparedness. Whether magical misdirection, base cunning, or treachery, nothing escapes me. I am alert to subtle inconsistencies in character and the tell-tale signs of trap placement and ambush as well as disturbances in the magical flows that surround me. In short, I ensure the party is never truly surprised and always has the edge on the enemy, and I assist in the fight itself with strong support magic and powerful attacks.

- I am the master of legions. Given a few days to prepare, I conjure forth dozens of expendable monsters - individually no threat to the enemy, but overwhelming in numbers. I can send them out on separate tasks or order them to attack en masse. Enemies who think that my strength is solely in my minions are in for a rude awakening, as I am also potent with both spell and blade. Despite this, I tend not to risk myself in battle - I can always simply win by attrition, for my hordes are endless given time.


I think it's pretty obvious how these are built in 3.x (and of course there are multiple ways to build them) but the overall idea is that in 3.x it is possible to actually properly cover multiple roles, whereas I haven't seen any indication that this is possible in 4E.
 

Before I get into Olgar's, I want to let raven_dark64 know that I have seen your post and intend to get to it. I'm going to need some time to assimilate the character sheet, however.
Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a spellcaster who uses the powers of nature -- animals, plants, and the elements -- to do my bidding. I can call down a storm of ice or lightning, blow my opponents' arrows away with a gust of wind, or cause the plants at their feet to grow and entangle them. I can speak to animals and get them to do my bidding.
Probably want to start with wizard. Ice Storm(9) and Chain Lightning(23) are directly on point for the storms of ice and lightning, and Web(5) reflavors into entanglement by roots and vines very nicely. Shield(2) can blow a volley of arrows headed for you off course. You can get animals to do your bidding(for certain values of "your bidding") with the Animal Messenger ritual,and get information from them through Commune With Nature. Your Mage Hand(cantrip) can be an enchanted monkey, pelican, or other animal, and Mordenkainen's Sword(9) can be a large snake, too slippery to strike, biting at your foes. As Craith pointed out, there are a number of warlock abilities that use roots, vines, and thorns in impressive ways.
Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a master of dread arcane magics, using the dead to do my bidding. I raid graveyards to animate the corpses of the dead, who serve as my swords and shields, while with my spells I rip the life force from the living and feed on it, speeding my transition to undeath.
Life-Stealer, the infernal warlock paragon path, is quite good at ripping the life force from the living and feeding on it. It also comes with Life Spark Summons, which lets you bring a creature you've killed back as a zombie for a round. You can also multiclass into cleric; three feats lets you get Astral Defenders(9) to serve as your swords and Knights of Unyielding Valor(10) to serve as your shields. They default to ghosts, but you can reflavor them to skeletons or zombies if you like.

I am aware that this is not exactly a permanent army of zombies, but, y'know, guideline 4.
Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a wandering minstrel, who tells stories and performed for the masses. My gilded tongue and skill with the lute enables me to encourage friends and captivate foes. In a pinch, I can survive through my skill with a blade, by the deft lift of a few coins, or by beguiling another with a bit of distracting illusion magic.
Warlords are all about encouraging friends, and have plenty of skill with the blade. If your stories are true, Diplomacy will help you tell them with social grace, if they are made-up, you can Bluff folks into believing them. Diplomacy's a class skill, so that's probably the way to go. You'll need to spend a feat to get Skill Training in Thievery, but when you need to lift coins, there's no substitute. If you have time for your illusions, the rituals Hallucinatory Item and Hallucinatory Creature will serve you well, if you're in more of a hurry you'll need to multiclass into wizard for Disguise Self(6), Mirror Image(10), or Blur(10), whichever suits you best.
Olgar Shiverstone said:
- I'm a subtle master of the arcane arts. I use mind-magic to warp the thoughts of others, causing them to do my bidding even when they don't realize it. I eschew the flash-bang wizardry of most arcanists and prefer to work from the shadows.
Warlocks revel in working in the shadows, sometimes even bringing the shadows to them as with Shadow Veil(2). The fey pact in particular has a large number of mind-warping spells, ranging from Eyebite(1) to Curse of the Twin Princes(25). Delusions of Loyalty(19) and Curse of the Dark Delirium(29) can cause a target to do your bidding, and while delirious he probably doesn't even know what he's doing, much less who is bidding it.

Whew! This is work! Fun work, but not a cakewalk. Need to break for a few hours. I'll pick up where I left off when I come back.
 

-I am an arcane infiltrator. Where mundane spies rely on the darkness and a silent blade I use illusions, disguises and charms as my weapon. With this I can freely walk among my enemies, gathering intelligence and influencing them to my advantage. If discovered I confuse the enemy to loose my trail and to fight each other while I use my contacts and charmed allies to get away.

-I am a arcane samurai. Much like the real samurai I don't focus on only one weapon. Be it a sword, a spear or the bow, be it on foot or from the back of a mount I am a capable warrior with it. But I also don't neglect the power of the arcane, instead I use it to enhance my fighting. Magic shrouds me in protective armour, magic makes my arm stronger and my feet faster, magic makes my sword strike true and magic lets me escape from hopeless situations.

And a comment about the guidelines:
theNater said:
4)There were a few things that were intentionally left out of 4th edition, so an inability to model them is not a failure of design. It might be a failure of design goals, but that's a discussion for another thread. Some examples: assistant creatures(animal companions, summoned monsters, etc.), highly freeform shapeshifting(wild shape, polymorph, etc.).

This is a failure of design. First you don't know which was left out intentionally and what not and second it doesn't change that 4E is not allowing what was possible in 3E.
 
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Olgar Shiverstone said:

I think you could do all of this if you:
  • Are, as a group, willing to buy into the concept.
  • Are willing the change the names of things. (e.g. rename a longsword "Pimp slap")
  • Have a DM willing to resolve actions that aren't spelled out in the rules. (e.g. Make a Nature check to speak with animals. Here's a hint: Yes, your dude can speak with animals all the time. Can he get the information out of them that he needs? That's what we roll for.)
  • Use the stunting rules a lot. (e.g. You want your undead minions to do damage? Control them with an Arcana check, and they do 1d6+Int vs AC.)
 

Derren said:
I am an arcane infiltrator. Where mundane spies rely on the darkness and a silent blade I use illusions, disguises and charms as my weapon. With this I can freely walk among my enemies, gathering intelligence and influencing them to my advantage. If discovered I confuse the enemy to loose my trail and to fight each other while I use my contacts and charmed allies to get away.

There's no reason you can't do that with skill checks & challenges.
 


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