LostSoul said:There's no reason you can't do that with skill checks & challenges.
Except that this is against the character concept.
LostSoul said:There's no reason you can't do that with skill checks & challenges.
raven_dark64 said:What about my character? Are you going to conveniantly ignore those that you would otherwise fail to convert effectively?
Let me make it easier for you: He's an evil wizard with superhuman intelligence who plots world domination via dark supernatural magic and minions. He is the archatypical villain who sits in his dark tower waiting for the heroes to drop by so they can be vanquished and he can laugh manically. If 4E can't fullfill this archetype, I worry about the game.
moritheil said:What part of that is "arcane?"![]()
LostSoul said:Player: "I cast a spell. The shadows warp and twist and cover me in their umbral embrace."
DM: "Cool! Make a Stealth check, and give yourself a +2 because you're trained in Arcana."
Derren said:Thats exactly how the concept does not work. The infiltrator does not hide and sneak past guards, he uses illusions and disguises so that they let him pass.
LostSoul said:Oh. Well, then take Wizard, pick Disguise Self & Invisibility, train Bluff and Stealth and Arcana.
Then you get this:
Player: "I sneak past the guards."
DM: "How?"
Player: "I walk up to them and cast Doogar's Pleasing Smile. I flash my enchanted smile, and they trust me completely."
DM: "Cool! Make a Bluff check, and add +2 because you're trained in Arcana."
moritheil said:Lost, I think you and Derren are at cross purposes. It seems to me that he does not want to use skill mechanics. He does not want someone who can resist skill-based social manipulation resisting his efforts - he would rather work off of Will saves. This is a fundamental part of how the Beguiler toolkit differs from the social rogue toolkit.
Derren said:This is a failure of design.
Derren said:First you don't know which was left out intentionally and what not
Derren said:it doesn't change that 4E is not allowing what was possible in 3E.
Derren said:Which is still only a small part of the concept.
Please, either really try to build this concept or don't post at all.
Class: Wizard
Level: 10
Race: Tiefling
Hit Points 57
Bloodied 28 Healing Surge 14 Surges Per Day 6
Initiative +6 Action Points 1
Defenses
AC Fort Ref Will
20 15 20 21
Racial Traits
Speed: 6 squares Vision: low-light
Languages: Common, Draconic
Alignment: Unaligned
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Stealth
Bloodhunt
Fire Resistance 7
Str 10 +0
Con 11 +0
Dex 13 +1
Int 20 +5
Wis 12 +1
Cha 18 +4
Skills
Arcana +15
Bluff +16
Diplomacy +14
History +15
Insight +11
Stealth +15
Feats
Ritual Caster
Pact Initiate (eyebite)
Skill Training: Stealth
Novice Power (Dreadful Word)
Skill Training: Stealth
Acolyte Power (Beguiling Tongue)
Adept Power (Mire the Mind)
Powers
Infernal Wrath
Magic Missile
Ray of Frost
Eyebite
Dreadful Word
Freezing Cloud
Sleep
Expeditious Retreat
Beguiling Tongue
Colour Spray
Stinking Cloud
Web
Disguise Self
Invisibility
Mire The Mind
Ice Storm
Blur