Challenge! I want to convert your concept!

[Derren]

There's no reason you can't do that with skill checks & challenges.

Except that this is against the character concept.

 

[Phaezen]

What about my character? Are you going to conveniantly ignore those that you would otherwise fail to convert effectively?

Let me make it easier for you: He's an evil wizard with superhuman intelligence who plots world domination via dark supernatural magic and minions. He is the archatypical villain who sits in his dark tower waiting for the heroes to drop by so they can be vanquished and he can laugh manically. If 4E can't fullfill this archetype, I worry about the game.

Evil Wizard with warlock multiclassing (choose pact to flavour), archmage epic destiny, not too sure on the paragon path, with the Liche template? Retrain powers as more appropriate ones become available. Not too difficult.

Phaezen

 

[LostSoul]

What part of that is "arcane?"

1. The Arcana skill.
2. How you describe it:
Player: "I cast a spell. The shadows warp and twist and cover me in their umbral embrace."
DM: "Cool! Make a Stealth check, and give yourself a +2 because you're trained in Arcana."

 

[Derren]

Player: "I cast a spell. The shadows warp and twist and cover me in their umbral embrace."
DM: "Cool! Make a Stealth check, and give yourself a +2 because you're trained in Arcana."

Thats exactly how the concept does not work. The infiltrator does not hide and sneak past guards, he uses illusions and disguises so that they let him pass.

 

[LostSoul]

Thats exactly how the concept does not work. The infiltrator does not hide and sneak past guards, he uses illusions and disguises so that they let him pass.

Oh. Well, then take Wizard, pick Disguise Self & Invisibility, train Bluff and Stealth and Arcana.

Then you get this:

Player: "I sneak past the guards."
DM: "How?"
Player: "I walk up to them and cast Doogar's Pleasing Smile. I flash my enchanted smile, and they trust me completely."
DM: "Cool! Make a Bluff check, and add +2 because you're trained in Arcana."

 

[moritheil]

Lost, I think you and Derren are at cross purposes. It seems to me that he does not want to use skill mechanics. He does not want someone who can resist skill-based social manipulation resisting his efforts - he would rather work off of Will saves. This is a fundamental part of how the Beguiler toolkit differs from the social rogue toolkit.

 

[Derren]

Oh. Well, then take Wizard, pick Disguise Self & Invisibility, train Bluff and Stealth and Arcana.

Then you get this:

Player: "I sneak past the guards."
DM: "How?"
Player: "I walk up to them and cast Doogar's Pleasing Smile. I flash my enchanted smile, and they trust me completely."
DM: "Cool! Make a Bluff check, and add +2 because you're trained in Arcana."

Which is still only a small part of the concept.
Please, either really try to build this concept or don't post at all.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Lost, I think you and Derren are at cross purposes. It seems to me that he does not want to use skill mechanics. He does not want someone who can resist skill-based social manipulation resisting his efforts - he would rather work off of Will saves. This is a fundamental part of how the Beguiler toolkit differs from the social rogue toolkit.

Well, *I* don't want a system wherein people who have skills are completely overshadowed by some uppity Wizard beyond level 3.

That, or play a Warlock. Shadow Veil = +5 to Stealth checks. Sneak past the guards, catch your breath, then continue on into the castle. There is no low level spell that completely gets rid of the need for skills; this is by design.

-TRRW

 

[unobserved]

This is a failure of design.

No it isn't. What you speak of is an obvious failure of expectations.

First you don't know which was left out intentionally and what not

Neither do you, so I don't see how this is a valid point. What's in is in and what's not in is out. Not really worth crying over spilt milk.

it doesn't change that 4E is not allowing what was possible in 3E.

You sir are correct. Not everything from 3e is going to be possible. Not right now, some maybe not ever. If that rubs you the wrong way. I suppose you can continue ignoring all the suggestions in this thread from people that are trying to HELP you come up with ways to make what IS in there work for YOU.

Continuing to gripe about how 4e doesn't have everything you want isn't going to change 4e. If you don't genuinely want the help converting a character concept and all you want to do is prove to everyone that you can come up with a character that can't be created in 4e, I think then that you're the one who should stop posting.

 

[LostSoul]

Which is still only a small part of the concept.
Please, either really try to build this concept or don't post at all.

That sounds like a challenge!

• I am an arcane infiltrator.
  Wizard. Power Source: Arcane.
• Where mundane spies rely on the darkness and a silent blade[...]
  Rogue. Power Source: Martial.
• I use illusions,
  Invisibility and other powers with the Illusion keyword. Combine with Stealth checks and description.
• disguises
  Disguise Self. Combine with Bluff checks and description.
• and charms as my weapon.
  Pact Initiate, Wizard powers with Charm keyword, Utilities from Warlock. Combine with Bluff checks and description.
• With this I can freely walk among my enemies, gathering intelligence and influencing them to my advantage.
  The results of success.
• If discovered I confuse the enemy to loose my trail and to fight each other while I use my contacts and charmed allies to get away.
  The result of success on more skill checks.

Here, I'll build a level 10 guy for you.

[sblock=Level 10 Wizard with Pact Initiate]

Class: Wizard
Level: 10
Race: Tiefling

Hit Points 57
Bloodied 28	Healing Surge 14	Surges Per Day 6
Initiative +6	Action Points 1

Defenses
AC	Fort	Ref	Will
20	15	20	21

Racial Traits
Speed: 6 squares	Vision: low-light
Languages: Common, Draconic
Alignment: Unaligned

Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Stealth
Bloodhunt
Fire Resistance 7

Str 10 +0
Con 11 +0
Dex 13 +1
Int 20 +5
Wis 12 +1
Cha 18 +4

Skills
Arcana +15
Bluff +16
Diplomacy +14
History +15
Insight +11
Stealth +15

Feats
Ritual Caster
Pact Initiate (eyebite)
Skill Training: Stealth
Novice Power (Dreadful Word)
Skill Training: Stealth
Acolyte Power (Beguiling Tongue)
Adept Power (Mire the Mind)

Powers
Infernal Wrath
Magic Missile
Ray of Frost
Eyebite
Dreadful Word
Freezing Cloud
Sleep
Expeditious Retreat
Beguiling Tongue
Colour Spray
Stinking Cloud
Web
Disguise Self
Invisibility
Mire The Mind
Ice Storm
Blur

[/sblock]