Challenging my high-lvl group (NPCs and monsters; my players shouldn't read this!)
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Sollir Furryfoot
Explorer
"If he says 'prophecy', we're going to hit him." - Malachite
"That isn't normal dragon behavior." - ao
Hrm...in reference to the above quote, I wnoder if Nolin will be inheriting anything from Gilias in the future *hint*hint*
"That isn't normal dragon behavior." - ao
Hrm...in reference to the above quote, I wnoder if Nolin will be inheriting anything from Gilias in the future *hint*hint*
Rybaer
First Post
Piratecat said:
*Gasp* Could that fluid dynamics class I took in college finally pay off? Frankly, I'm very rusty, but I might be able to come up with a reasonably educated estimate if you could provide more details about the size of the reservoir (all dimensions).
I also need to know how it gets into the corridor. Oh, and we're talking water, right? If it's something more exotic, like lava, oil, honey, or tar, that changes the numbers considerably.
Just gotta dig out my Transport Phenomena book...
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
Sollir, be less hinty and more explicit. Pretend I'm slow or something. 
Rybaer, picture an underground spring-fed reservoir of undertermined size. It's dammed up, so that a small amount of water drains out, just like any dam. It's filled quite slowly.
Then the flood doors are opened. At the same time, very far downstream, a series of razor-coated portcullises is lowered.
The water rushes out into a steeply downwards sloping, perfectly smooth 10' x 10' tunnel. It slopes downwards in a gentle arc, merging with another tunnel.
For the poor PCs, though, they first learn that there's a wall of water when it smacks into them at (I think) 60-80 miles an hour, driving them downstream into a series of three razor-gates while drowning them! Then the poisonous eels start attacking... Man, kuo-toa are mean.
I'll attach one of my infamous Excel maps for illustration.
My questions:
- how fast (roughly) might the water get going? I did some research on flash floods, and the 60-80 miles an hour was suggested, but I'd like a sanity check.
- how long would the water flow for? This is important both for drowning purposes and escape strategies. I know that this is dependent on the size of the reservoir, but I just have no clue how long something like this would take to drain. I'd say the reservoir is somewhere in size between a large pond and a small lake.
Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated!
Rybaer, picture an underground spring-fed reservoir of undertermined size. It's dammed up, so that a small amount of water drains out, just like any dam. It's filled quite slowly.
Then the flood doors are opened. At the same time, very far downstream, a series of razor-coated portcullises is lowered.
The water rushes out into a steeply downwards sloping, perfectly smooth 10' x 10' tunnel. It slopes downwards in a gentle arc, merging with another tunnel.
For the poor PCs, though, they first learn that there's a wall of water when it smacks into them at (I think) 60-80 miles an hour, driving them downstream into a series of three razor-gates while drowning them! Then the poisonous eels start attacking... Man, kuo-toa are mean.
I'll attach one of my infamous Excel maps for illustration.
My questions:
- how fast (roughly) might the water get going? I did some research on flash floods, and the 60-80 miles an hour was suggested, but I'd like a sanity check.
- how long would the water flow for? This is important both for drowning purposes and escape strategies. I know that this is dependent on the size of the reservoir, but I just have no clue how long something like this would take to drain. I'd say the reservoir is somewhere in size between a large pond and a small lake.
Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated!
Attachments
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Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
All together now...
"Piratecat is an R B D M!
You know he's an R B D M!
He got poisonous eels
And bad water traps!
He's gonna try and kill them all!
R B D M!
P-cat's an R B D M..."
To the tune of YMCA, just to clarify...the thought just jumped into my head and I went with it...
Ooooh, sudden thought. Those Wall spells of Valendo's are really going to put a dampner (ha! I made a funny!) on that trap, if anyone manages to see it coming...
"Piratecat is an R B D M!
You know he's an R B D M!
He got poisonous eels
And bad water traps!
He's gonna try and kill them all!
R B D M!
P-cat's an R B D M..."
To the tune of YMCA, just to clarify...the thought just jumped into my head and I went with it...
Ooooh, sudden thought. Those Wall spells of Valendo's are really going to put a dampner (ha! I made a funny!) on that trap, if anyone manages to see it coming...
Last edited:
Greybar
No Trouble at All
Heh, what's the terminal velocity of a wall of water?
I don't think heavy calculus is needed for this and reality might just get in the way. If you want it to be 60 miles per hour it gets to 60 miles per hour. The flash flood scenario might assume large body that moves down a narrowing path (like a arroyo (sp?)). The calculus would be needed to figure out the number. To the infernal regions with that.
60 mph ~= 5000 ft/min ~= 100 5ft squares/round
(Hey, that was easy!)
Assume 10x10 standard dungeon tunnel as installed by union kuo-tao contractors. Look for the label of Kuo-Tao Stonemason Local 403 for quality!
So that's a 10x10x5 block of water for every round of PC drownage.
SRD says:
"Fast-moving water is much more dangerous. On a successful Swim or Strength check (DC 15), it deals 1d3 points of subdual damage per round (1d6 points of normal damage if flowing over rocks and cascades). On a failed check, the character must make another check that round to avoid going under. If the character goes under, the character is drowning.
Very deep water is not only generally pitch black, posing a navigational hazard, but worse, it deals water pressure damage of 1d6 points per minute for every 100 feet the character is below the surface. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) means the diver takes no damage in that minute.
Very cold water deals 1d6 points of subdual damage from hypothermia per minute of exposure."
Let's call this high-pressure water the equivalent of "deep water" as well as cold. That's still only damage in minutes though.
SRD also says:
"Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a Constitution check (DC 10) every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1.
When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she dies."
So we need to challenge twice their Con to make it worth it! So let's say 30 rounds worth of water. That's 30x10x10x5 = 15000 cubic feet of water. So a pond 30 long by 50 wide by 10 deep would be sufficient. No problem, piece of cake.
My guess is that the razor portcullis and screaming eels will be more danger than the drowning, just because 30 rounds to challenge a 15 con is a long time.
John
I don't think heavy calculus is needed for this and reality might just get in the way. If you want it to be 60 miles per hour it gets to 60 miles per hour. The flash flood scenario might assume large body that moves down a narrowing path (like a arroyo (sp?)). The calculus would be needed to figure out the number. To the infernal regions with that.
60 mph ~= 5000 ft/min ~= 100 5ft squares/round
(Hey, that was easy!)
Assume 10x10 standard dungeon tunnel as installed by union kuo-tao contractors. Look for the label of Kuo-Tao Stonemason Local 403 for quality!
So that's a 10x10x5 block of water for every round of PC drownage.
SRD says:
"Fast-moving water is much more dangerous. On a successful Swim or Strength check (DC 15), it deals 1d3 points of subdual damage per round (1d6 points of normal damage if flowing over rocks and cascades). On a failed check, the character must make another check that round to avoid going under. If the character goes under, the character is drowning.
Very deep water is not only generally pitch black, posing a navigational hazard, but worse, it deals water pressure damage of 1d6 points per minute for every 100 feet the character is below the surface. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) means the diver takes no damage in that minute.
Very cold water deals 1d6 points of subdual damage from hypothermia per minute of exposure."
Let's call this high-pressure water the equivalent of "deep water" as well as cold. That's still only damage in minutes though.
SRD also says:
"Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a Constitution check (DC 10) every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1.
When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she dies."
So we need to challenge twice their Con to make it worth it! So let's say 30 rounds worth of water. That's 30x10x10x5 = 15000 cubic feet of water. So a pond 30 long by 50 wide by 10 deep would be sufficient. No problem, piece of cake.
My guess is that the razor portcullis and screaming eels will be more danger than the drowning, just because 30 rounds to challenge a 15 con is a long time.
John
Kugar
First Post
Hi guys!
I sent PC this spreadsheet to find out the rate of flow out of the reservoir, for you other techies check it out - I made some simplifications and assumptions so if you find mistakes or can suggest how to modify the calcuations I'd be indebted. Eventually I'll post up this spreadsheet with a short write-up so other GMs can drown their PCs. PC- this is great idea!
Kugar
I sent PC this spreadsheet to find out the rate of flow out of the reservoir, for you other techies check it out - I made some simplifications and assumptions so if you find mistakes or can suggest how to modify the calcuations I'd be indebted. Eventually I'll post up this spreadsheet with a short write-up so other GMs can drown their PCs. PC- this is great idea!
Kugar
Greybar
No Trouble at All
Oh, and I'm sure you're planning that spellcasting during this will be an epic challenge so to speak.
Verbal - unless you're Water Breathing already, you might have to sacrifice some of your rounds against drowning to expel air into the rush. Even then you might need a Fort save not to get water in your mouth that jumps you 2d6 rounds closer to downing.
Somatic - while being tossed head over heels in the rush of water?
Material - try to pull that pinch of powdered diamond out of your pouch under these conditions, bucko!
Ooh this is fun. And my PCs might have to deal with watery doom at some point too... [chuckle]
It is hard to visualize how the eels will be able to attack the PCs until the water stops rushing at 60 mph. Won't they go right past? Now if it stabilizes with a full tunnel and little or no flow, I understand that...
John
Verbal - unless you're Water Breathing already, you might have to sacrifice some of your rounds against drowning to expel air into the rush. Even then you might need a Fort save not to get water in your mouth that jumps you 2d6 rounds closer to downing.
Somatic - while being tossed head over heels in the rush of water?
Material - try to pull that pinch of powdered diamond out of your pouch under these conditions, bucko!
Ooh this is fun. And my PCs might have to deal with watery doom at some point too... [chuckle]
It is hard to visualize how the eels will be able to attack the PCs until the water stops rushing at 60 mph. Won't they go right past? Now if it stabilizes with a full tunnel and little or no flow, I understand that...
John
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