Chance of PC Failure

[Nagol]

One of the very interesting things about the evolution of D&D over the years is the attitude about pc failure.

In the early years (and I'd say up through much of 1e), it was a given in many groups that pc survival rate was low- that, say, half of all pcs would die before attaining 2nd level.

In late 1e (especially DragonLance) and then 2e, the emphasis on "story" started a tendency towards plot immunity for pcs that seems implicitly stronger than ever in 4e (with a mix of attitudes in 3e). For example, at the end of Keep on the Shadowfell is a section on "Failure" that basically says, "If the pcs fail, let them go pretty much without consequence".

How do you feel about the chance of pc failure? There's a great range of opinion on this, and I think DnDN will support a wide array of playstyles, but what's your preference? If you, as a dm, use a "world will end" plot in your campaign, are you prepared to end the world if you have a tpk? Do you prefer a "no pc dies without the player's permission" style? Do you like a game where pc turnover is common or rare? Do you like it when there is a real chance of actual mission failure, and real consequences, or is it more fun when the pcs always win?

As a DM, I am prepared to follow through on any consequence or evolution of a situation that has been placed inside the game world. I wouldn't place it otherwise.

As for player permission, the players grant permission for their characters to die when the game system is chosen and they agree to play. Some games line Teenagers from Outer Space they system prevents death. For other games like Hero emulating 4-colour comics, death is both rare and need not be "real" -- characters come back all the frikking time. For other games death is common and final.

As for PC turnover, it depends strongly on the game system in play -- specifically the ease at creating and integrating a new character. For early D&D, fast turnover was fine. For Hero, Ars Magica, 3.X not so fine.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

My pc fails all the time. I generally just reboot.

 

[Dragonblade]

I think there are a couple of different questions here.

In a micro sense, how often should PCs fail and how severe should the penalty be when they do? (e.g. How difficult should swinging across a chandelier be and what happens to the PC if they fail?)

In a macro campaign sense, how likely should PC's "fail" and how often does failure mean death?

And I think it vastly depends on the game and the people playing it.

For example, in a micro sense, I dislike excessive checks or high DCs to see if actions succeed. I think a high chance of failure when a PC tries a stunt or some cool action that they should reasonably be able to do teaches players that they have to min/max or powergame to be successful. Or teaches them to turtle up and never try anything new or different.

I like cinematic action scenes where the PC's swing across a chandelier, or run up the huge monster's back and try to stab it while it tries to fling them off. I want keep some chance of failure, but I set the DC low enough that most of the time the PCs can succeed (80% or more). I want to encourage them to try such things in the game.

Now in a macro sense, I have no problem with PC failure/death if it is the end result of a series of poor choices or tactics by the PCs. I dislike games where the threat of death or failure largely results from random chance (i.e. one or two poor rolls). Also in story driven games, death can be a huge setback if a particular character is heavily invested in the story. I've seen campaigns end over a key PC dying unexpectedly. Not only because it derailed the story, but also because the player in question lost their enthusiasm for the game once they did die and it snowballed to the other players.

In my Pathfinder game which is heavily story based, the DM has created the "Final Fantasy" rule. If a PC ever "dies" they are instead treated as "Swooned". They are out for the rest of the combat (i.e. they can no longer be healed and get back into the fight) and their status is frozen until the battle is over. If its a TPK, well then everyone dies (or is captured). If at least one PC is left standing, then all swooned or negative HP PCs, immediately recover to 1 HP.

 

[Glade Riven]

As DM, I like to make my players squirm. Oddy enough, the more I put the boots to 'em, the more likely they are to come out alive. PCs only die when I put the gloves back on.

 

[ExploderWizard]

D&D puts alot of emphasis on character growth, and going backwards (i.e. having a character die and having to start a new one at lvl 1 or at least a couple of levels behind everyone else) just sux! Its the nature of D&D, you cant spend a year building a character through the levels then in one night of bad rolls have the character die and expect players will enjoy it. Its a bitter, bitter pill to swallow.

This is the result of D&D being treated too much like sewious business.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

In the early days TSR put something like "Be a Mighty Warrior! A Powerful Wizard! A HERO!" On most of their stuff. That was, and is, the game I want to play. A 50%+ failure rate is not that game! Now, if the PCs die because they did something dumb, or overreached themselves, that's ok. But "A Goblin jumped out of the bushes and slaughtered half the party!"? No thanks.

 

[Kaodi]

Death should be your constant companion, should be first encountered at Level 5, and should use the Bite, Pursuit, Payback, and Taunt moves.

 

[Lanefan]

It's spelled out in the introduction to my game: bad things can and will happen to your characters as the game world will on occasion be cruel to them and, by extension, their players.

Some characters, whether by good luck or good management, stick around long enough to make the grade. Many others don't.

Lan-"getting into the Hall of Heroes around here is an achievement, as it should be"-efan

 

[JamesonCourage]

How do you feel about the chance of pc failure?

• If I, as a GM, use a "world will end" event in my campaign, I am prepared to end the world if they have a TPK. I actually don't have this specific event in my games, but anything similar ("the ghost lich obtaining a magical item that dispels his one weakness as long as he possess it") I definitely follow through with without hesitation.
• If a PC dies because of the dice, he dies. Since it's a point-buy game, players can always spend character points at any point to help save their character. I also use Luck Points to help give them some sway in dangerous situations. If everything fails, they die.
• I have no real preference on PC turnover rate, but I definitely want there to be the possibility when danger is present. If the PCs earn a win in a dangerous situation, it's because they earned it. A PC tends to die once a month, on average.
• I definitely prefer it when there is a real chance of actual mission failure, and real consequences for PC actions. While the newest player (who is 23 and plays AD&D with some older gentlemen) thinks I'm more liberal about PC death than his friends, he much prefers my style of play.

 

[Blacky the Blackball]

My campaigns tend to be fairly consistent.

• The threat of death is always there. I roll openly and won't fudge things to keep people alive. If a PC goes into a situation that the player knows to be risky, the player must take that risk of their PC dying.
• In practice, that results in around one death per two or three levels (that's for the party, not per player).
• I usually make sure that the party can get access to a cleric with Raise Dead - I dislike when DMs restrict access to Raise Dead because it would mess up their plots/setting/sense-of-realism. The setting and plots should reflect how the game works, not the other way around. That's the whole point of it being a fantasy game rather than a historical simulation.
• At low levels it may be rather inconvenient to go back to a large town or city to get raised. At mid levels, the party can often find scrolls of Raise Dead and do it in the field; and obviously at high levels they can cast it themselves.
• When a character dies, the player may bring in a new character at the same XP total as everyone else (the party normally all have the same XP total as each other - I'm not one for individual experience awards) or get their old character raised. It seems to be around 50/50, with my players choosing to bring in a new character more often at low level than at high level.
• Since I normally play BECMI, there's no XP or Con penalty for being raised (and no cost either). To keep things simple, I generally don't make characters who were dead miss out on XP gained during the time between dying and being raised.
• I've only had one TPK in the 30 years I've been DMing. And that was after the party had been given lots of warning but still did something very stupid. It ended the campaign.