Changes in MM creatures - why?

I admit, although I am by-and-large a proponent of 3.5, the new orc is a little jarring. I'll go through changes as I flip through the books.

Azer
- AC is 4 better than 3.0 (changed from no armor to Scale Mail)
- Skill points reallocated
- Azers have 2 racial hit die and a +4 level adjustment. This seems ridiculous to me as they are basically dwarves with the fire subtype. You would be a 1st level fighter (with 3 HD) adventuring with 7th level peers to play an Azer. If the natural armor was toned down (its currently +6) and the racial levels tossed out, as well as reducing the overall stat inflation this creature has (which seems to be necessary in a paradoxical way, it has better stats to justify a higher challenge rating to justify a +4 level adjustment).

Bugbear
-Only change is reallocating skill points and gaining Weapon Focus (Morningstar) which makes their attack +1 better than 3.0 version.
-Once again the monster is statted out to be played as a PC. I can understand why this one has racial HD (3 of them) because they are supposed to be big and strong. They have great stat adjustments and +3 natural armor so the Level adjustment of +1 seems spot on.

Centaur
-Loses a point of AC from 3.0 version. However the 3.0 version seems incorrect as it gives it a Large Shield (+2 AC) then states one of its attack options as Composite Long Bow.
-Weapon changed from Greatclub to Longsword, though attack bonuses remain the same. Picture in both versions seems to imply a sword. Aha, interesting change because the longsword for a Large creature is apparantly 2d6 damage as is its Composite Long Bow. Big damage boost there.
-Skills recalculated. Gained Dodge as a feat (why not Improved Natural Armor?)
-Level Adjustment of +2, 4 racial HD. Great stat adjustments and Large Size would imply the LA +2, 4 racial HD seem excessive (although less than in RoF I believe).

Derro
-Previously Medium Humanoid (Dwarf) now Small Monstrous Humanoid. Ironically, Dwarf Blood is not mentioned ;)
-Interesting things to point out are that it has racial sneak attack +1d6, immunity to poisoning themselves when applying poison, and it suffers 1 point of Con damage for every hour it is exposed to sunlight, dying if it reaches 0 Con (seems like an awesome mechanic for vampires too!!! Checks back of 3.5 MM - nope).
-Madness lets them use their Charisma score instead of Wisdom score for determining Will saving throws. Also immunity to confusion and insanity effects. Cannot be restored to sanity short of Miracle or Wish. Racial Madness is -6 Wis, +6 Cha. Cool.
-Seems to have 3 racial HD with a level adjustment of +2 (if sane). Again seems like inflated HD to match an inflated CR (3) which makes it harder to play a half-dwarf/half-man walking away from the insanity of their homeland.

Doppleganger
-Type changed from Shapeshifter to Monstrous Humanoid (Shapeshifter). No biggie.
-Feats changed from Alertness, Dodge to Dodge, Great Fortitude.
-Detect Thoughts DC still 13 (although effect is caster level 18).
-Alter Self ability (as cast by 18th level sorceror) changed to Change Shape, both do rather much the same thing.
-Skill points reallocated.
-As character section added, +4 Level Adjustment and 4 levels of monstrous humanoid. Level Adjustment is accounted for by overall good stat adjustments plus innate abilities of Change Shape and Detect Thoughts (both at will).

Drider
-Some interesting tweaks. Weapon switched to Daggers although being a Large abberation the daggers do d6s. Bite remains the same, although attack bonus raised from +0 to +6 (partly thanks to Weapon Focus (Bite)).
-Spell Resistance is raised from 14 to 17, although according to the section in the back this is slightly weak SR as it should be 11+CR for 50% odds.
-Skill points recalculated, lost Spellcraft as a skill altogether.
-Gained Claiaudience/Clairvoyance, Dispel Magic, and Suggestion. Lost Detect Chaos, Detect Evil. In 3.0 a Drider Cleric had additional spell-like abilities as the ones that were added, as well as Discern Lies which is absent entirely.
-Thankfully a "Typical Sorceror Known Spells" list is added giving it Invisibility, Web, and Lightning Bolt (for its level 2+3 spells). Woohoo, Driders on the fly.
-Level adjustment +4 but no details how. They appear to have 6 racial HD which manage to count as levels in a spellcasting class (as they cast spells as a 6th level cleric, wizard, or sorceror).

Dryad
-This one appears to be entirely reworked (buffed). CR increased from 1 to 3.
-HD increased from 2d6 to 4d6 (hp doubled, from 7 to 14).
-AC from 12 to 17 (gained +3 natural armor and 4 Dex).
-Dex increased from 15 to 19, other stats remain the same.
-Skills reallocated.
-Feats changed from Alertness, Dodge, and Improved Initiative to Great Fortitude and Weapon Finesse.
-Saving throws improved from 0/5/5 to 3/8/6, Fortitude is still really low. Improved Initiative might have fit better than Great Fortitude (Raising Init to +8 instead of +4 which is lower than 3.0 version).
-Still Tree Dependant (know called that instead of Symbiosis).
-Lost mystical Dimension Tree Jumping and gained Tree Stride 3/day in addition to some other spell-like abilities.

Dwarf
-Although 3 subraces are given it appears this is where Derro were hiding in 3.0 (also, still no picture for Derro even though they got their own entry).
-Still no stat block for a dwarven warrior. No biggie, imo, except that if you have one for elves, gnomes, and halflings why not have one for dwarves (that way we could get a Duergar stat block too!). Oh well, probably space constraints.

Elf
-This is actually the first one I've come to that doesnt have the base 10-11 scores, they used the Non-Elite scores to make the Elf Warrior and the Drow Warrior.
-Hp increased due to not having an 8 Con! Woohoo, it now takes the best roll on a dagger to kill an elf!
-Attack Bonus Doubled! From +1 to +2 ;)
-Not really sure how the standard Elf is the same CR as the standard Orc, because the Orc is about 10x more offensive (although similar hp).
-Drow poison changed from DC 17 (CR 1?!) to DC 13.
-Drow statblock and picture added.
-4 "other" Elf Subraces remain. Wood Elves are +2 Str, -2 Int, so that leaves good reason to EVER play a half-orc right? I mean lets face it, either go all-out "everyone hates you" and play an orc (for +4 strength) or just be an aloof elf and not suffer -2 Charisma. Oh, and you pick up ALL the other elven racial benefits, but don't worry the half-orc is the same since people love it as it is (or maybe not enough playtest time?). Sigh.

Gnoll
-AC reduced by 2, now wearing Leather instead of Scale which increases movement from 20 to 30.
-Listen increased by 1, from +2 to +3. Probably because of new ways of calculating monster skills.
-Organization now lists Hyenas as regularly encountered with gnolls. Cool.
-Level Adjustment +1, 2 racial HD. They have +1 natural armor and good physical scores (+4 Str, +2 Con), but Int -2, Cha -2. That +1 level adjustment is on the lowest end of +1 I've ever seen, if you actually have someone who wants to play a gnoll, just make them take 2 "levels" of gnoll (2 racial HD), thats sufficient nerfing of a concept, imo. Humanoid HD suck.

Gnome
-Due to non-elite stat array, slightly more powerful warrior.
-Hp increased by 1 (from 5 to 6).
-Now wields a Longsword (outfitted for a small character) which does the same damage as a shortsword from 3.0.
-Light X-bow attack increased form +2 to +3 because now has Weapon Focus (L. Xbow) instead of Weapon Focus (Shortsword). Attack bonus remains the same in melee between 2 versions because of non-elite stat array.

Goblin
-Non-elite stat array and Small-sized weapons make this a slightly better opponent.
-Melee attack is +2 instead of +1, Fort is +3 instead of +2 (but Will is -1 instead of 0).
-Level adjustment +0, halflings are way better - goblins have the 30ft speed that most small "enemy" races seem to get.

Grimlock
-By and large, the exact same creature.
-Blindsight 40 ft now under Special Qualities instead of Special Attacks.
-Level Adjustment +2 for +4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -4 Cha seems like it should be +1 Level Adjustment. I guess +4 Natural Armor, Blindsight (although weaknesses are listed) + some visual immunities make up the rest of the LA. 2 racial HD which gives 1 feat (Alertness) leaves me wondering where Track with a small b after it comes form. A racial bonus feat? It doesn't say.

Halfling
-Also uses non-elite array.
-Gains 1 hp.
-Gains 1 AC, probably because 3.5 lists light shield and light x-bow as its gear. Wouldn't the shield negate the xbow? Its a Lt X-bow down from 3.0 when they managed to use a heavy xbow.
-They use small longsword instead of longsword, damage comes out the same.
-Fortitude is +1, Will is -1.
-Tallfellows and Deep Halflings are unchanged.

Hobgoblin
-Non-elite array.
-Gains 1 hp, Fort +1, Will -1.
-Same iconic weapons.
-Skill points reallocated.
-Level Adjustment +1, no racial HD. Good Stat adjustment but no real reason to pay a level to play these (esp at high levels). They are one of the few "bad guys" who don't suffer from a mental deficiency.

Kobold
-CR changed from 1/6 to 1/4
-Non elite-array used.
-Hp doubled! From 2 to 4.
-Attack increased from -1 to +1 and damage from 1d6-2 to 1d6-1.
-Light xbow changed to Sling, 1 attack bonus gained. (Good thing too, the picture didn't have a light xbow :P)
-Level Adjustment +0, but only thing going for them is speed, +1 Nat Armor, and +2 dex. Now all kobolds suffer the -2 Con, whereas before a PC kobold would start with a full HD and NPCs used 1/2 for first one. Overall less incentive to play a kobold, but makes better game logic.

Kuo-Toa
-AC possibly reduced by 2. Lists 16 but then "or" with a wooden shield 18.
-Resistance to Electricity reduced from 30 to 10.
-Kuo-Toa adhesive explained! It requires 1 hour and 20 gp worth of materials to make, once used once it is used up until reapplied. Only lasts 3 days per use.
-Escape Artist natural bonus increased from +8 to +15!! Also gives +8 racial swim bonus and can take 10 swimming even if distracted, etc.
-Level adjustment +3 and 2 racial HD means its tough to be one.
-Would have been nice to see a mid-level Kuo-Toa Whip, so as to actually use some of their abilities which warriors can't.


[Interestingly the Lillend is featured on pg 168 in 3.5 and page 128 in 3.0. This adds up to roughly 40 pages of new monsters so far, since although 3.0 had more info. in the beginning (which is at the end in 3.5 MM), the 3.5 MM has been adding templates with regular monsters and those appeared at the end in 3.0. Also sort of interesting, the Locathah managed to be entirely on 1 page in 3.0; in 3.5 he is one of the few monsters torn across the end of 1 page and the beginning of the next page, which must be turned.]

Lizard Folk
-Not many changes. Hold Breath is now listed as a Special Quality, in 3.0 MM it was mentioned but not explicitly made into an ability.
-Level Adjustment +1 actually pays of nicely as they have +2 Str, +2 Con, (and -2 Int) and +5 Nat armor. Unfortunatley, you have to buy the racial HD as well and there are 2 of em.

Merfolk
-Non-elite array used.
-Hp increased from 5 to 6!
-Trident attack increased to +2 from +1. Damage increased +1.
-Fort +1, Will -1
-+8 racial swim bonus, along with taking 10 even if distracted. Spot and Listen -1 from 3.0.
-Although a level adjustment +1 is given, and there are no racial HD, this entry does not have a nice "Merfolk as Characters" section setting up all the racial abilities. Especially sad as they are "amphibious" meaning they can breathe air or water.
-Would have been nice to see a higher level Bard Merfolk leader, which is referred to a couple times.

[Personally Im sick of the Tall Dark scary thing coming to get you illustrations. Bodak, Doppleganger, and Nightshade are too similar for me. Show me a Doppleganger as it is changing shape. Show me a Nightcrawler or Nightwing instead of Nightwalker. And Bodak...honestly the coolest thing about Bodak is that it takes 1 point of damage every round it is in the sun, yet ANOTHER way they couldve statted the vampire's vulnerability.]

Orc
-Honestly they really changed the Orc for little reason. I can see it going either way as far as greataxe or falchion, but I would lean towards greataxe since the illustration shows greataxe. The armor also seems more like scale mail than greataxe. I think with a new picture the new design would've worked a lot better. As it is, Im pretty confused over the question: why?

Plane-touched
-Given the non-elite array as usual.
-Another one of those entries that turns out to be +1 Level Adjustment despite being CR 1/2. These guys would definitely give a party more trouble than an elf (although about as much as an Orc). I think the deciding factor once again is Hp, they only have 5. Honestly, I think more of the weaker races should take toughness and have their CR bumped a little, rather than giving Toughness to high CR monsters who do not need, nor probably never needed a couple more HP.
-Otherwise the same as 3.0

I'm done for now, I may go back later and do a couple more (I didn't get to Trogs, but they didn't seem much changed). Overall I'd say the largest damage is on the orc, which I find strange since it is one of the most iconic enemies in d&d. I also checked a few regular monsters and most of them seemed very little changed, so overall I am very happy with the effort that went into this book (especially the advanced/levelled versions of monsters, I only wish there were more! :))

I think I've deduced the reason for the non-elite stat array. You see some monsters (primarily those with racial HD) are monsters by themselves. They aren't 1st level warriors, they are just plain monsters. Others, like elves would die if they were just statted with 10/11s, hence giving them a decent stat array and 1 level of warrior. Personally, I like it. Most of the changes didn't add up to much (see above) and it makes more sense to look up Gnoll and just see a stat block vice looking up Elf and seeing a 1st level Warrior Elf.

Technik
 

log in or register to remove this ad

psychognome said:

Tell me, Quasqueton, did you really find these changes so terrible that you had to come here and complain about them? Did these changes really cause permanent harm to you? I think not.

In fact, the changes are so small and pointless that one wonders why they changed it at all; that´s the point


Little starving kids are dying in Africa, and you are complaining about these petty changes in a book! There are people who are living on the street, and your world was rocked because WotC changed the stats of the 1st-level orc!

Shut down the boards! The game´s name could change to "Corridors & Cocroaches" (the Dragon would be replaced by giant cocroaches that breathe soap bubbles) and change the game system so that if you roll a 4 in a d4 you succeed, no matter what. And still would be less important than one child starving in Africa.
 

I'd rather see a rant about a big change.

The orc was changed because ...

it killed too many players! The previous orc wasn't a CR 1/2 creature, at least not if the players got into melee with it, or it ambushed the party and hit the wizard.
 

Excellent post, just a small comment:
Technik4 said:
Halfling...
-Gains 1 AC, probably because 3.5 lists light shield and light x-bow as its gear. Wouldn't the shield negate the xbow? Its a Lt X-bow down from 3.0 when they managed to use a heavy xbow.
I thought halflings were good with slings and thrown weapons? Has this changed or why not a sling?
 

My understanding was that all first-level warrior monsters (orcs, goblilns etc) were given the non-standard array because a normal example of those species would be a first level commoner just like humans, etc.

At least they were consistant.


Aaron
 


Technik4 said:
Drider
-Some interesting tweaks. Weapon switched to Daggers although being a Large abberation the daggers do d6s. Bite remains the same, although attack bonus raised from +0 to +6 (partly thanks to Weapon Focus (Bite)).
-Spell Resistance is raised from 14 to 17, although according to the section in the back this is slightly weak SR as it should be 11+CR for 50% odds.
-Skill points recalculated, lost Spellcraft as a skill altogether.
-Gained Claiaudience/Clairvoyance, Dispel Magic, and Suggestion. Lost Detect Chaos, Detect Evil. In 3.0 a Drider Cleric had additional spell-like abilities as the ones that were added, as well as Discern Lies which is absent entirely.
-Thankfully a "Typical Sorceror Known Spells" list is added giving it Invisibility, Web, and Lightning Bolt (for its level 2+3 spells). Woohoo, Driders on the fly.
-Level adjustment +4 but no details how. They appear to have 6 racial HD which manage to count as levels in a spellcasting class (as they cast spells as a 6th level cleric, wizard, or sorceror).
The Drider has the same spell resistance as the Drow, as in 11 + HD or Class levels.

Plane-touched
-Given the non-elite array as usual.
-Another one of those entries that turns out to be +1 Level Adjustment despite being CR 1/2. These guys would definitely give a party more trouble than an elf (although about as much as an Orc). I think the deciding factor once again is Hp, they only have 5. Honestly, I think more of the weaker races should take toughness and have their CR bumped a little, rather than giving Toughness to high CR monsters who do not need, nor probably never needed a couple more HP.
-Otherwise the same as 3.0
Aasimar have Daylight as a spell-like ability instead of Light now.
 

In the notes on Abilities it says assume that the standard array unless otherwise noted.

Just looking at the heading how are you supposed to tell the difference? Well, it isn't noted in a convenient place. It is noted later in the 'x as characters' section. This kind of information should be easily and readily gathered in with a single glance.

I don't like having to scan the text to see if the stats are a standard array array or not. It dilutes the usefullness of the heading information.

Ysgarran.

Anabstercorian said:
Actually, I'm with Quasqueton. Monsters in the MM should DEFINATELY have the 11, 10, 11, 10, 11, 10 stat array, just so that you can design them more easily.
 

Technik4 said:
1 point of Con damage for every hour it is exposed to sunlight, dying if it reaches 0 Con (seems like an awesome mechanic for vampires too!!! Checks back of 3.5 MM - nope).


But it works almost like that for vampires - they die in sunlight when at no Con, which they have from the beginning ;)

As for changes, check out the new Nymph - double HD, no more killing with her looks, and she gets her Cha-bonus on all saves and AC - Wow!
 

Ysgarran said:
In the notes on Abilities it says assume that the standard array unless otherwise noted.
Two sentences later it says: "Humanoid warriors are generally built using the nonelite array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8." (pg 7) Thus, if you need a clue as to which monsters have the nonelite array, it's the first line of the stat block where it says: "Elf, 1st Level Warrior". (pg 100)

And no one has explained the difference between 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 and 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10 in terms of game balance. They are equal point buy ability scores.
 

Remove ads

Top