Changes in MM creatures - why?

[Quasqueton]

Yes, as a rule, hong is only funny when he's poking fun at someone else, isn't he?

Actually no. I was thinking of the times he makes fun of an odd rule in the books. Or those rare times he rags on himself, Or on someone's vaguely fraudian slip.

IYKWIM, AITYD

Quasqueton

 

[Olive]

I like the non-elite array. Why? Because while 10s and 11s are the average score, it seems wildly unlikely that any creature would be completely average in every ability. So it makes sense to me, and I'm happy to use it.

I also agree that the reason they changed the weapon to the falchion was to reduce the likely hood of a single orc getting lucky with a tpk...

 

[drnuncheon]

Two sentences later it says: "Humanoid warriors are generally built using the nonelite array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8." (pg 7) Thus, if you need a clue as to which monsters have the nonelite array, it's the first line of the stat block where it says: "Elf, 1st Level Warrior". (pg 100)

It's also in the "Combat" section of each - for example, on the Hobgoblin:

"The hobgoblin warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8."

J

 

[Desdichado]

Or on someone's vaguely fraudian slip.

Would this count as one of those moments?

 

[Technik4]

I also agree that the reason they changed the weapon to the falchion was to reduce the likely hood of a single orc getting lucky with a tpk...

To me it seems like they just raised the chances. I think if you ran 100 1st level groups against the same CR 2 group of orcs (4 I believe) you will get more TPKs with the new orcs than the old (since hp are so low that frequency of crits is more telling than how much said crits are actually multiplied).

I like the old one better, falchion just doesn't sound very orcish. (I realize thats a dumb opinionated point, but its true just the same)

Technik

 

[Saeviomagy]

I find it difficult to believe something with the mouthparts of a giant lobster (with the addition of paralytic tentacles, no less), would have the necessary vocal apparatus to actually speak a human language.

A crustacean language of clicks and pops, I could buy. A sort of "Morse code" language based on clicking their claws together, I could buy. "What are you doing in my pool? Grrr! I'll kill you!"...not so much so. I think the chuuls in my campaign will continue to be mute.

What, you've never watched Futurama?
If not, I command you to watch Futurama at least once.

 

[Saeviomagy]

To me it seems like they just raised the chances. I think if you ran 100 1st level groups against the same CR 2 group of orcs (4 I believe) you will get more TPKs with the new orcs than the old (since hp are so low that frequency of crits is more telling than how much said crits are actually multiplied).

I like the old one better, falchion just doesn't sound very orcish. (I realize thats a dumb opinionated point, but its true just the same)

Technik

Old orc:
Max damage on a non crit (1 in 12): 15

New orc:
Max damage on a non crit1 in 16) 12

I think that's probably more important than the damage on a crit, regardless of the multiplyer or threat range - the old orc would quite often totally kill characters with a normal hit. The new one can only totally kill a character who has 2 hps or less.

Also a crit from a falchion is far less likely to instantly kill a character. A crit from a greataxe almost certainly resulted in death. A crit from a falchion is most likely to end in unconsciousness.

 

[Technik4]

Well, behold the 3.5 "stock" orc:

HD: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
Speed: 30'
AC 13 (+3 studded leather armor)
Attack: Falchion +4 (2d4+4/18-20, x2)
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +0, Will -2
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 7, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +1, Spot +1

Compare the 3.0 "stock" orc:

HD: 1d8 (4 hp)
Speed: 20'
AC: 14 (+4 scale mail)
Attack: Greataxe +3 (1d12+3/20,x3)
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +0, Will -1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 11, Int 9, Wis 8, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +2, Spot +2

Im not a math guy, Im just going at this intuitively.

3.5 Orc - Falchion +4 attack, 6-12 damage, crits on 18-20
3.0 Orc - Greataxe +3 attack, 4-15 damage, crits on 20

Whats the average level 1 char have for hp? Fighter-type is around 11, support-character is 6-9, and mages are 4-5. On a charge attack both orcs stand a pretty good chance to hit low-level ACs, so lets assume a hit! Either Orc rolling excellent has a chance to lay any level 1 char low, but even if the 3.5 orc rolls terribly he has a better chance to K.O. a PC than his 3.0 brother.

Of course, switching out the archtypical alterness for Power Attack makes things even worse. Now they have the same attack bonus (+3) but 3.5 orc is doing almost double damage on his worst hit, and nearly even damage on his best with the 3.0 Orc. Compare their criticals even, 4d4+12 [16-28, avg 22.5] (3.5) vs 3d12+9 [12-45, avg 28.5] (3.0).

If you don't want to switch out Alertness for Power Attack, consider the amount of critical hits. I mean honestly 4d4+8 [12-24, avg 18.5] is taking out a 1st level character hands-down (maybe beyond unconsciousness) and because of a tripled crit range and an additional attack bonus this WILL happen more frequently. Heck change the feat to Weapon Focus (Falchion) and it gets even worse.

Technik

 

[rounser]

Yes, as a rule, hong is only funny when he's poking fun at someone else, isn't he?

Poor dear. Have a liedown. And some chicken soup.

That's getting personal, IMO. Insult veiled in "wit" or sarcasm is still just insult.

 

[coyote6]

Centaur
[...]
Aha, interesting change because the longsword for a Large creature is apparantly 2d6 damage as is its Composite Long Bow.
[...]
Drider
[...]
Weapon switched to Daggers although being a Large abberation the daggers do d6s.

Hmm, the human(oid) halves are presumably roughly the same size as a regular human(oid) (judging by pictures, descriptions, etc.), yet those regular-sized arms and hands are mysteriously able to wield weapons beyond the reach of a normal human(oid). Ought to be a special quality of such races that restrict their weapons sizes, IMO.

Dwarf

-Still no stat block for a dwarven warrior. No biggie, imo, except that if you have one for elves, gnomes, and halflings why not have one for dwarves (that way we could get a Duergar stat block too!). Oh well, probably space constraints.

What do you mean by this? The stats listed say "1st level warrior" on 'em, for both regular dwarf and duergar.