# Level Up (A5E)Changes to Advantage

#### Morrus

##### Well, that was fun
Staff member
Here's a (very rough half-baked) idea.

From time to time, special circumstances can give you an advantage or a disadvantage when attempting to perform an action. Climbing a cliff in the driving rain is more difficult, while striking an enemy while they are prone is easier.

The rules will sometimes tell you that you have advantage or disadvantage. This will be accompanied by a number, know as the degree of advantage or disadvantage--for example, higher ground might give you advantage 5 while climbing that slippery cliff might inflict disadvantage 16.

If you have advantage, and you roll the degree indicated or lower on your d20, you may reroll the die and take the higher of the two rolls. Conversely, if you have disadvantage and you roll the degree indicated or higher on your d20, you must reroll the die and take the lower of the two numbers.

---

Doing the maths on this, Advantage 10 is about equal to a +5, Advantage 5 is about equal to a +2.5, Advantage 2 is about equal to a +1. There are some weird probability curve things on it at the extremes though.

#### ThatGuySteve

##### Explorer
Here's a (very rough half-baked) idea.

From time to time, special circumstances can give you an advantage or a disadvantage when attempting to perform an action. Climbing a cliff in the driving rain is more difficult, while striking an enemy while they are prone is easier.

The rules will sometimes tell you that you have advantage or disadvantage. This will be accompanied by a number, know as the degree of advantage or disadvantage--for example, higher ground might give you advantage 5 while climbing that slippery cliff might inflict disadvantage 16.

If you have advantage, and you roll the degree indicated or lower on your d20, you may reroll the die and take the higher of the two rolls. Conversely, if you have disadvantage and you roll the degree indicated or higher on your d20, you must reroll the die and take the lower of the two numbers.

---

Doing the maths on this, Advantage 10 is about equal to a +5, Advantage 5 is about equal to a +2.5, Advantage 2 is about equal to a +1. There are some weird probability curve things on it at the extremes though.
It feels less fun to reroll a bad roll than to roll twice. I like the intent though, to add degrees of advantage/Disadvantage and to add value to having multiple sources. Might be a mechanic that could be used elsewhere though. Such as to replace Expertise? You could have Expertise 5 or 10 in a particular skill (or weapon /spell).

I think degrees could be better implemented using "if both rolls succeed or fail" style mechanisms to add riders to the outcome.

#### tetrasodium

##### Legend
Here's a (very rough half-baked) idea.

From time to time, special circumstances can give you an advantage or a disadvantage when attempting to perform an action. Climbing a cliff in the driving rain is more difficult, while striking an enemy while they are prone is easier.

The rules will sometimes tell you that you have advantage or disadvantage. This will be accompanied by a number, know as the degree of advantage or disadvantage--for example, higher ground might give you advantage 5 while climbing that slippery cliff might inflict disadvantage 16.

If you have advantage, and you roll the degree indicated or lower on your d20, you may reroll the die and take the higher of the two rolls. Conversely, if you have disadvantage and you roll the degree indicated or higher on your d20, you must reroll the die and take the lower of the two numbers.

---

Doing the maths on this, Advantage 10 is about equal to a +5, Advantage 5 is about equal to a +2.5, Advantage 2 is about equal to a +1. There are some weird probability curve things on it at the extremes though.
Its pretty early and no caffeine yet, but this looks like a much more interesting and thought out mechanic that allows more meaningful interaction

#### schneeland

Here's a (very rough half-baked) idea.

From time to time, special circumstances can give you an advantage or a disadvantage when attempting to perform an action. Climbing a cliff in the driving rain is more difficult, while striking an enemy while they are prone is easier.

The rules will sometimes tell you that you have advantage or disadvantage. This will be accompanied by a number, know as the degree of advantage or disadvantage--for example, higher ground might give you advantage 5 while climbing that slippery cliff might inflict disadvantage 16.
...

In general I like the idea as it makes adv/disadv more nuanced (which is one of my major gripes with 5e). But it feels like this adds a bit too much of processing, so I wonder if it would be an option to go with a couple of "weird dice", i.e. d16 and d24 and say:
advantage 1: higher of d16 and d20
advantage 2: higher of d20 and d20
advantage 3: higher of d20 and d24

Downside is that the effect here might be too low, but if we move to d10/d30, it might be a bit too extreme.

#### tetrasodium

##### Legend
In general I like the idea as it makes adv/disadv more nuanced (which is one of my major gripes with 5e). But it feels like this adds a bit too much of processing, so I wonder if it would be an option to go with a couple of "weird dice", i.e. d16 and d24 and say:
advantage 1: higher of d16 and d20
advantage 2: higher of d20 and d20
advantage 3: higher of d20 and d24

Downside is that the effect here might be too low, but if we move to d10/d30, it might be a bit too extreme.
You feel like adding and subtracting two numbers between 1 & 20 is too much effort? How do you handle magic weapons that add plus x or extra dice and plus abity MOD on the vast majority of attacks to say nothing of healing and so much more?...

#### schneeland

You feel like adding and subtracting two numbers between 1 & 20 is too much effort? How do you handle magic weapons that add plus x or extra dice and plus abity MOD on the vast majority of attacks to say nothing of healing and so much more?...

I'm not saying it cannot be done. I was personally fine with modifiers in the first place
I just have the feeling that one thing people like about advantage/disadvantage is that it involves very little procedure (roll 2 dice, take the higher/lower), and was musing if that can be kept in some way.

#### Morrus

##### Well, that was fun
Staff member
In general I like the idea as it makes adv/disadv more nuanced (which is one of my major gripes with 5e). But it feels like this adds a bit too much of processing, so I wonder if it would be an option to go with a couple of "weird dice", i.e. d16 and d24 and say:
advantage 1: higher of d16 and d20
advantage 2: higher of d20 and d20
advantage 3: higher of d20 and d24

Downside is that the effect here might be too low, but if we move to d10/d30, it might be a bit too extreme.
I don't have any d16s or d24s!

#### schneeland

I don't have any d16s or d24s!

I had assumed Dungeon Crawl Classics would be widespread enough to make it an option. But if not, that's also fine with me.

#### jmucchiello

##### Hero
The only "problem" (and I put that in quotes) is it takes longer to get a result using this system. Rolling the two dice at once will always be faster than one at a time. On the flip side, I suppose getting a failure with a reprieve could add tension.

Also how would disadvantage work? Using the climbing example with disadvantage 16. So I roll a 15 on the first die and with my Athletics it should be a success. But because I didn't roll a 16 I have to roll again and succeed again or its a failure? I feel as though that would be worse than how disadvantage works now, mood-wise. I could be wrong.

#### jmucchiello

##### Hero
I had assumed Dungeon Crawl Classics would be widespread enough to make it an option. But if not, that's also fine with me.
DCC is a niche in the Grognard niche in the D&D niche of gaming in general.

#### Morrus

##### Well, that was fun
Staff member
Also how would disadvantage work? Using the climbing example with disadvantage 16. So I roll a 15 on the first die and with my Athletics it should be a success. But because I didn't roll a 16 I have to roll again and succeed again or its a failure? I feel as though that would be worse than how disadvantage works now, mood-wise. I could be wrong.
No, the opposite. IF you roll 16-20 you have to roll again and take the lower of the two dice. If you roll 15 or less you don't.

#### Stalker0

##### Legend
The only "problem" (and I put that in quotes) is it takes longer to get a result using this system. Rolling the two dice at once will always be faster than one at a time. On the flip side, I suppose getting a failure with a reprieve could add tension.

Also how would disadvantage work? Using the climbing example with disadvantage 16. So I roll a 15 on the first die and with my Athletics it should be a success. But because I didn't roll a 16 I have to roll again and succeed again or its a failure? I feel as though that would be worse than how disadvantage works now, mood-wise. I could be wrong.

that’s my issue as well. It seems innocent until your rolling 10 monsters with 2 attacks each, and suddenly that delay starts to matter

#### tetrasodium

##### Legend
The only "problem" (and I put that in quotes) is it takes longer to get a result using this system. Rolling the two dice at once will always be faster than one at a time. On the flip side, I suppose getting a failure with a reprieve could add tension.

Easily soved. roll both in different colors but say \$color is only if neded by the other

#### Morrus

##### Well, that was fun
Staff member
that’s my issue as well. It seems innocent until your rolling 10 monsters with 2 attacks each, and suddenly that delay starts to matter
Yeah, it's need to be playtested to see how that plays out. You could be right.

#### ThatGuySteve

##### Explorer
Yeah, it's need to be playtested to see how that plays out. You could be right.
I think enough people play using VTTs that it's worth considering how easy it is to program in a mechanic. A lot of games have moved online and I can imagine many staying on even after lock downs have finished.

"Roll 2 keep highest" is built in on Roll20. I've no idea how to set this new mechanic up.

#### Morrus

##### Well, that was fun
Staff member
"Roll 2 keep highest" is built in on Roll20. I've no idea how to set this new mechanic up.
Well that's certainly never a reason not to make new things! I'm sure somebody would figure it out.

#### Micah Sweet

##### Hero
I had assumed Dungeon Crawl Classics would be widespread enough to make it an option. But if not, that's also fine with me.
I bought a full set of "weird dice" for that game. I never use them anymore, but they're cool as all hell!

#### tetrasodium

##### Legend
"Roll 2 keep highest" is built in on Roll20. I've no idea how to set this new mechanic up.
fom a programming standpoint it does not even rise to the level of mere triviality. Trying to decide on the formatting for if something like 2d20if</>16 or whatever is the best wording for 2d20 k/d1 or whatever it is would be the best was to have the code invoked or if soe other format made more sense

#### ThatGuySteve

##### Explorer
fom a programming standpoint it does not even rise to the level of mere triviality. Trying to decide on the formatting for if something like 2d20if</>16 or whatever is the best wording for 2d20 k/d1 or whatever it is would be the best was to have the code invoked or if soe other format made more sense
From a coding standpoint, yes. If you have to work within the limits of a VTTs existing dice rolling framework, maybe not. This is assuming there isn't official support for A5E on them. Having to Google the right code to set up your game might just be another barrier to entry. Plus you'd need to pick what level of advantage you were at each time.

Obviously, manually rerolling, as you would using physical dice, is an option. I'd just personally find it frustrating.

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#### tetrasodium

##### Legend
From a coding standpoint, yes. If you have to work within the limits of a VTTs existing dice rolling framework, maybe not. This is assuming there isn't official support for A5E on them. Having to Google the right code to set up your game might just be another barrier to entry. Plus you'd need to pick what level of advantage you were at each time.

Obviously, manually rerolling, as you would using physical dice, is an option. I'd just personally find it frustrating.

You are acting like they would not just update the how to dice reference linked all over roll20. You can't argue that people use it for d220k1/2d20d1 or whatever it is but couldn' t use it for the new thing too. Either the current advantage is subject to the same hassle you are thinking the new one would be or they are both exempt from it

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