Level Up (A5E) Changes to race (species?)

[Derren]

Heh, of course, in reallife, a species differs from a culture.

But in the Players Handbook, the differences between races look almost entirely cultural.

For example, among the elven subraces, the sea elf can breathe water and the avariel elves can fly by means of wings. The elves seem to have acquired their biological gills or wings − by means of shapeshifting magic. In other words, even these physical features are cultural after all.

So when a orphaned avariel is taken in by humans its wings would fall off?

 

[Kinematics]

Yeah, that's a pretty nonsense take on things.

Biological features are not merely 'cultural' features. Race is not inseparable from culture, as Haldrik claimed a couple pages ago. They're merely packaged together in the PHB for convenience and simplified character creation.

Race is more than character appearance (which the rules don't put any restriction on, other than Size), and does have mechanical impact. Namely, size and speed apply to all races; darkvision applies to many, if not most; and some sort of natural resistance against ailments is applicable to almost all races. In addition, some races have biological features like water breathing or wings or natural weapons.

Those are all racial-level components, and not cultural. Some cultures enhance those traits (Underdark species tend to have better darkvision; Wood Elves have enhanced speed; etc), but that doesn't mean culture replaces race.

 

[Coroc]

So, some of the races need additional benefits to balance out the intrinsic things I could pull from the PHB.

....

I find it absolutely unjust that a level 1 mountain dwarf can start with 17 STR and a level 1 human not. That is why i only allow hill dwarves.
I got no prob with halforc being as strong or stronger than human, and i got no prob with dwarves having higher HP and CON, but lvl 1 Conan is not weaker than lvl 1 Bruenor, basta!

 

[Haldrik]

That’s a wild leap.

They gained those feature because they are biologically prone to rapid adaptation with pretty extreme potentials. They didn’t cast spells to get wings or gills.

They were magical beings, who innately could shapechange. They took on shapes that they liked.

 

[Haldrik]

So when a orphaned avariel is taken in by humans its wings would fall off?

The magical transformation is "instantaneous", permanent.

Compare Wish.

 

[Derren]

The magical transformation is "instantaneous", permanent.

Compare Wish.

And yet that avariel child would grow up with humans and adopt their culture and not the avariel one.
So you would have a mismatch between species and culture.

 

[Haldrik]

And yet that avariel child would grow up with humans and adopt their culture and not the avariel one.
So you would have a mismatch between species and culture.

If one switches out away from a magical culture into a nonmagical culture, then they would no longer have access to shapeshift.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If one switches out away from a magical culture into a nonmagical culture, then they would no longer have access to shapeshift.

They don't have shapeshifting now. Maybe their ancestors did, but they have wings. It's a physical feature of being a winged elf. Racial features have meaning in the narrative and the rules, and they always have. The game you describe where that isn't true is a different game. And that's fine.

 

[Dire Bare]

Heh, of course, in reallife, a species differs from a culture.

But in the Players Handbook, the differences between races look almost entirely cultural.

For example, among the elven subraces, the sea elf can breathe water and the avariel elves can fly by means of wings. The elves seem to have acquired their biological gills or wings − by means of shapeshifting magic. In other words, even these physical features are cultural after all.

That’s a wild leap.

They gained those feature because they are biologically prone to rapid adaptation with pretty extreme potentials. They didn’t cast spells to get wings or gills.

Actually, I think either can work . . . .

Did sea elves evolve over time, magically or genetically, to breathe water? Or perhaps they were changed instantaneously in the ancient past due to some magical event (wizard, god) to adapt to life under the sea, but then passed down that trait genetically/magically? This idea works fine, and kinda-sorta matches our modern scientific ideas about biological evolution . . . .

Or maybe it's a mutant ability activating, X-Men (X-Person?) style (for an entire population) . . . throw a group of elves into the sea without a boat, and the trauma might activate a situation-dependent mutation to allow them to survive . . . . and then that ability is passed down generation after generation . . .

But . . . perhaps all elves have an innate ability to adapt to extreme environments, but must be trained to adapt to a specific environment. Perhaps sea elves are born in air-filled caves under the sea, and must be taught to adapt to underwater breathing. Or, perhaps elf babies can be taught when still in the womb . . . If you have a wood elf raised by sea elves, perhaps they too can learn to adapt to water-breathing! Perhaps even adult elves can learn to adapt to new environments, although it would be difficult and thought near impossible (much like language acquisition by adults IRL).

Even more extreme adaptations, like growing fins for sea elves and wings for avariel . . . could be described as learned adaptations, using the elven magical adaptability to grow fins or wings when young . . .

EDIT: Forgot to address @doctorbadwolf and his pushback against mortal elves casting spells to adapt to their environments . . . why not? Elves are described as being very magical beings, both innate magic and the ability to use high levels of wizardry. In D&D fiction, elven high mages cast powerful spells to adapt their environments to the elves' needs, why not powerful spells to adapt their own bodies? Once the high magic has been cast and an elven population now has fins and can breathe underwater, or has wings and can fly through the air . . . these traits are passed down to the generations. Or maybe the spells need to be cast for each new generation! Maybe the high magic is lost, and the elves are now dependent on powerful magical items to accomplish the adaptation (mythals?).

Something to keep in mind . . . we are talking about changing the mechanics of race in D&D, but we can also change the story behind those mechanics . . . how much we change the story depends on our own personal preferences, but there isn't anything stopping us!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Actually, I think either can work . . . .

Did sea elves evolve over time, magically or genetically, to breathe water? Or perhaps they were changed instantaneously in the ancient past due to some magical event (wizard, god) to adapt to life under the sea, but then passed down that trait genetically/magically? This idea works fine, and kinda-sorta matches our modern scientific ideas about biological evolution . . . .

Or maybe it's a mutant ability activating, X-Men (X-Person?) style (for an entire population) . . . throw a group of elves into the sea without a boat, and the trauma might activate a situation-dependent mutation to allow them to survive . . . . and then that ability is passed down generation after generation . . .

But . . . perhaps all elves have an innate ability to adapt to extreme environments, but must be trained to adapt to a specific environment. Perhaps sea elves are born in air-filled caves under the sea, and must be taught to adapt to underwater breathing. Or, perhaps elf babies can be taught when still in the womb . . . If you have a wood elf raised by sea elves, perhaps they too can learn to adapt to water-breathing! Perhaps even adult elves can learn to adapt to new environments, although it would be difficult and thought near impossible (much like language acquisition by adults IRL).

Even more extreme adaptations, like growing fins for sea elves and wings for avariel . . . could be described as learned adaptations, using the elven magical adaptability to grow fins or wings when young . . .

Maybe so (although it's not an idea I care for, its plausible), but the issue I have was that @Haldrik is claiming that all racial features are just cultural, as if it were inarguable. That just not how they've ever been presented or intended.