Level Up (A5E) Changes to race (species?)

[Micah Sweet]

I mean subraces are really questionable concept. They are basically just cultures for non-humans with mechanical bonuses tied to them. But different species having different abilities is definitely far less problematic than different cultures having them.

I believe a big part of the problem was that some people find attaching attribute modifiers to specific races problematic. Since I don't like players just cherry-picking them, and I feel attribute modifiers are an important part of D&D, I am offering this design of separating ancestry and culture, exemplified by a product that was specifically crafted to be sensitive to these concerns. If you disagree, that's fine. We don't have to see eye to eye on this.

 

[Wishbone]

I mean subraces are really questionable concept. They are basically just cultures for non-humans with mechanical bonuses tied to them. But different species having different abilities is definitely far less problematic than different cultures having them.

I always liked Keith Baker's suggestion of non-dragonmarked subraces meaning whatever the player wants it to mean for that individual character without tying it into anything else in the larger world. Probably helps that things like hill dwarves and mountain dwarves weren't really ever a thing in Eberron.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I believe a big part of the problem was that some people find attaching attribute modifiers to specific races problematic. Since I don't like players just cherry-picking them, and I feel attribute modifiers are an important part of D&D, I am offering this design of separating ancestry and culture, exemplified by a product that was specifically crafted to be sensitive to these concerns. If you disagree, that's fine. We don't have to see eye to eye on this.

If the objection is that ability bonuses being tied to the fantasy races (species) are problematic then moving them to far more problematic cultures is a really bizarre fix.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No. If you start to assign stat bonuses to cultures then that is really problematic. It is utterly terrible idea.

If a culture highly prizes and rewards intellectual genius, it will produce more exceptional intellects. If it prizes and rewards athletic genius, it will lead in exceptional athletes. How is that problematic?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If a culture highly prizes and rewards intellectual genius, it will produce more exceptional intellects. If it prizes and rewards athletic genius, it will lead in exceptional athletes. How is that problematic?

Now assign those descriptions to real world cultures and you find out very quickly.

 

[glass]

I would have Species, Culture, and a third thing (maybe Profession) covering the ground of Race and Background in the PHB (more or less).

Species would be the races from the PHB (but broken down a bit, although not to the extent of PF2), and any cultural things (weapon training etc) removed.

Culture would be things like Mountain Stronghold, Plains Agrarian, Plains Horse Nomad. Generic, but with a sidebar on creating custom Cultures for specific settings.

Professions would be the the elements of background that have not been already stolen by Culture, mostly.

EDIT: Species and Profession would provide (flexible) ability score bonuses. Culture would not, for the reasons @Crimson Longinus outlines.

_
glass.

 

[Blue]

My biggest issue with 5e races is how feature light they are. There is no room to put in a more powerful or differently powerful race. If I wanted a true Centaur (large sized), or a tiny flying Pixie, or a Vampire - there's not enough design room to realize them as they thematically should be.

I can see three possible solutions, and there may be more.

1. More features in the base classes - this way it's balanced.

2. Allow more serious penalties - we already have sunlight sensitivity and the Centaur penalty for climbing, but that wasn't considered enough to offset a Centaur actually being as large as they are in the MM, or to be riden by humans.

3. Have some sort of outside-of-race penalty. Perhaps more powerful races have multiclass-like levels that need to be taken for the suite of powers. The biggest concern about this is that these can not cater to just the "obvious". A wizard Minotaur can't be three levels behind all casters, even if a Minotaur 3 / Fighter 6 is on par with a Fighter 9.

 

[CubicsRube]

Ditch ASIs based on species, or limit them to +1 physical only. Add two +1 ASIs to background (effectively floating since you can mix and match background bonuses). I can better believe a Scholar being smarter than a Street Urchin, than saying High Elves are intrinsically smarter than Dwarves.

You could double up your species +1 with a background +1, giving a slight edge to martial types, maybe?

Culture should be more RP than mechanical, such as determining languages, bonds, ideals, etc. Could also suggest preferred weapon or tool choices, working with a background like Soldier, to determine which weapon proficiency is granted by the background. Arcanis 5e campaign does this very well.

I actually really like the idea of separating physical and mental stats.

Most arguments for stats ive seen are about the physical ones, i.e, a half orc being stronger than a gnome. And most arguments against racial boost are about the physical, i.e, orcs having a oenalty to Int.

Makes a lot of sense to me that a halfling might be more dextrous due to his ancestry but wiser due to growing up an urchin, where a half orc might be naturally stronger, but with higher charisma due to being a performer.

 

[CubicsRube]

I would have Species, Culture, and a third thing (maybe Profession) covering the ground of Race and Background in the PHB (more or less).

Species would be the races from the PHB (but broken down a bit, although not to the extent of PF2), and any cultural things (weapon training etc) removed.

Culture would be things like Mountain Stronghold, Plains Agrarian, Plains Horse Nomad. Generic, but with a sidebar on creating custom Cultures for specific settings.

Professions would be the the elements of background that have not been already stolen by Culture, mostly.

EDIT: Species and Profession would provide (flexible) ability score bonuses. Culture would not, for the reasons @Crimson Longinus outlines.

_
glass.

I've provided a homebrew hacked pdf on here that does exactly that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Now assign those descriptions to real world cultures and you find out very quickly.

Hardly.

American culture prized intellectual achievement and rewarded acedemic genius for much of the 20th Century, and as a result produced and attracted many of the great minds of that century.
In the later decades of the 20th, and all of the 21st Century so far, we have increasingly prized and rewarded athletic genius, and as a result we produce and attract the worlds greatest athletes.