Character Level v Effective Character Level

[Legildur]

Can someone help me make sense of the following from the 3.5E FAQ:

Character Level: The total number of class levels you
have in all your classes, plus any racial Hit Dice you have... <snip> Character
levels determine when you gain feats and ability score increases (see Table 3-2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits in the Player’s Handbook). Any feat you get by virtue of your character level is in addition to any bonus feats from your class levels.

In addition, your character level determines how much
experience you earn when you defeat a foe and how many
experience points you need to gain your next class level.

Effective Character Level (ECL): Effective character
level is character level plus the level adjustment for the
character’s race.... <snip>

Use the character’s ECL to determine starting equipment
and how the character earns and benefits from experience, as
noted on page 5 of Savage Species. Use the actual character
level for everything else.

So, character level affects feats and bonus ability points gained, and ECL affects experience point calculations. Is that right? The 2 italisized quotes above seem in contradiction to me.

The example is an 8th level troll paladin PC (don't ask, and not mine).

A troll has a +5 LA with 6 racial hit die. So the character in question would be have a character level of 14 (8+6) and an ECL of 19 (8+6+5). Therefore would have 5 feats from hit die and 4 bonus points to ability scores (as for a 14th level character along with saving throws and skill points), but be treated as a 19th level character for earning experience points and how many xps are needed to gain the next level (20th)?

Is this right?

PS I don't have Savage Species.

 

[gtJormungand]

The first quote is specifically for characters that do not have level adjustments, ignoring the entire ECL principle.

For characters that don't have level adjustments, you just simply use their character level. When level adjustments are added, then you start applying the slight differences mentioned under the ECL entry.

 

[Spatula]

So, character level affects feats and bonus ability points gained, and ECL affects experience point calculations. Is that right?

Yes. Use ECL for XP and starting gold. Use CL for everything else.

The example is an 8th level troll paladin PC (don't ask, and not mine).

A troll has a +5 LA with 6 racial hit die. So the character in question would be have a character level of 14 (8+6) and an ECL of 19 (8+6+5). Therefore would have 5 feats from hit die and 4 bonus points to ability scores (as for a 14th level character along with saving throws and skill points), but be treated as a 19th level character for earning experience points and how many xps are needed to gain the next level (20th)?

Is this right?

Yes, except for two things:
1) 14 levels would get you 3, not 4 bonus ability score points (at levels 4, 8, and 12).
2) You don't get ability score increases for monster HD. So the 8th level troll paladin only gets 2 ability score bonuses, at 8 HD (2nd level paladin) and 12 HD (6th level paladin).

 

[Legildur]

Yes, except for two things:
1) 14 levels would get you 3, not 4 bonus ability score points (at levels 4, 8, and 12).

Doh!! Of course. Thanks.

2) You don't get ability score increases for monster HD. So the 8th level troll paladin only gets 2 ability score bonuses, at 8 HD (2nd level paladin) and 12 HD (6th level paladin).

But FAQ explicitly states that Character Level (class levels plus racial HD) determines feats and ability score increases.

 

[Li Shenron]

2) You don't get ability score increases for monster HD. So the 8th level troll paladin only gets 2 ability score bonuses, at 8 HD (2nd level paladin) and 12 HD (6th level paladin).

I think you do indeed get ability score increases for monster HD, but if you start with a monster race you have those increases already included in the race ability bonuses.

 

[Legildur]

I think you do indeed get ability score increases for monster HD, but if you start with a monster race you have those increases already included in the race ability bonuses.

Okay that makes sense now. Thanks. And maybe I wasn't sufficiently clear about the background. The character in question is gradually 'acquiring' the troll race (unintentionally - was human).

 

[Spatula]

But FAQ explicitly states that Character Level (class levels plus racial HD) determines feats and ability score increases.

Monster characters are a special case - this is covered in Savage Species. If you have a monster PC, you don't get ability score bonuses (beyond the normal mods for your monster race) from your monster HD. If you're advancing in a monster "class" (for example, a "1st level" troll following the progression from SS), you only get the attribute bonuses specified in the class write-up.

 

[Nail]

Monster characters are a special case - this is covered in Savage Species. If you have a monster PC, you don't get ability score bonuses (beyond the normal mods for your monster race) from your monster HD.

Skills and Feats are always determined by HD. So ECL never affects that.

Ability score adjustments are also dependent on HD: but for monsters listed in the various monster manuals, it's "just assumed". As Savage Species was a "between the editions" book, it's not clear.