Charging someone who is charging?

  • Thread starter Thread starter xnosipjpqmhd
  • Start date Start date
Vegepygmy said:
Exactly. This is an excellent example why I don't believe Hyp's interpretation is (1) correct or (2) wise.
Hyp's interpretation have always been literal, no matter how hard I would try to argue with him ... and I have in the past.

This is what stated in exact words in the SRD

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
Funny, how the AC penalty is mentioned when attacking rather than the previous paragraph regarding movement during a charge.

Personally, I would agree with the FAQ but it does contradict the wording of the rules. So, either the specific FAQ answer is wrong, or the intention of the designer did not reflect in the rules text.

English is a funny language.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Vegepygmy said:
The Combat Expertise feat says that "When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class." By your logic, this would mean that you only get the bonus to AC after you make your attack...yet the 3.0 FAQ makes it clear that you get the bonus even while moving to make your attack. I see no reason to treat a Charge differently, especially given the flavor text.

Actually, in 3E, you could take the penalty/bonus while moving; in 3.5, you do not.

Why? Because in 3E, the Attack action was a standard action. What was a standard action in 3E? "A standard actin allows you to do something and move your speed during a combat round." So the Attack action in 3E was either "Move 30 feet and hit something", or "Hit something and move 30 feet". You can see that the movement is part of the Attack action, so while moving, you satisfy the "When you use the attack action" requirement of the Expertise feat.

Contrast with 3.5, where the Attack action is also a standard action, but the definition of standard actions has changed.

Standard actions no longer incorporate movement; they more closely resemble the 3E concept of a partial action. So if I move 30 feet and hit someone, I am taking a Move action, followed by an Attack action. My Attack action, unlike in 3E, does not commence until after my movement is concluded, and I am thus ineligible to use Combat Expertise while moving. (See Dervish Dance for an exception.)

Of course, even in 3E, I could only use Expertise while 'in melee'... which meant that I'd need to threaten or be threatened by an enemy at some point before activating it.

If I started off next to one orc, and wanted to move 30 feet and hit another, I'm a/ taking the Attack action (move and hit), and b/ in melee (I threaten the first orc), so Expertise is legal.

If I'm in a big empty space, and want to move and hit an orc, I'm taking the Attack action, but I'm not 'in melee'... so until I get close enough to the orc that one of us threatens the other, no Expertise for me!

(The change in the definition of Standard Actions is also why the 3.5 Spring Attack, read literally, allows for an extra Move action... but I've tended to overlay the assumption that this was an oversight.)

-Hyp.
 

Hypersmurf said:
Actually, in 3E, you could take the penalty/bonus while moving; in 3.5, you do not.
I don't agree with your conclusion that the 3.0 FAQ's clarification of Expertise has been abrogated by the 3.5 rules, but it's nice to see your Rules Fu in action.

We'll just have to agree to disagree (or just plain disagree, if you're feeling really contrarian). ;)
 

Thanks for all the help, guys!

So... if an opponent is charging me from a long distance (a few rounds' worth of movement) and I don't have a weapon that can be set to receive the charge, then it's a great tactic simply to start charging them and speed up/slow down so that I reach them on my turn instead of them reaching me on their turn. Right?
 

ironregime said:
Thanks for all the help, guys!

So... if an opponent is charging me from a long distance (a few rounds' worth of movement) and I don't have a weapon that can be set to receive the charge, then it's a great tactic simply to start charging them and speed up/slow down so that I reach them on my turn instead of them reaching me on their turn. Right?

Assuming that they don't have cometary collision, aren't faking their movement rate at some point (thus causing you to miscalculate), and don't have items or spells that can suddenly alter their movement rate. And assuming that they aren't intelligent enough to notice and modify their own speed accordingly ;)
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top