Charles Ryan on Adventures

[wakedown]

Shackled City, Ptolus, WLD, Drowmunchkin 30k, etc. are premium items. IMO most people that buy them will buy them just to be proud of owning them, never to actually use them at a game table. It will be interesting to see what other types of items come out to fill this "new" niche. Interesting and scary, if WotC jumps into it with both feet a la Games Workshop.

I have seen countless instances of folks in the 30's crowd "coming back" to the game. Most of us have a pretty full work week and are heavily nostalgic when it comes to gaming. Money is really not a factor in purchasing back some of your youth.

If you look at the 'classic campaign arcs' on eBay (i.e. TOEE, Slavers, Spiders) - last night's auctions went for $55-$80 a pop. WLD is a little dry, but Shackled City is great.. Heck, I subscribed to Dungeon purely on the basis of Age of Worms. There's definately some good non-WOTC product out there (Vault of Larin Karr comes to mind) in this niche.

For my demographic at least, I know I have money in hand waiting for 2-3 "gems" of campaign arcs that may pop up in the next 2 years. I'm definately looking for a "classic" and I'd expect extremely high production values (full color glossy, player hand-outs) as well as great plot development and an immersive detailed setting.

I'm pretty excited that companies like Paizo and WOTC are in touch and developing product here. I hope a lot of the upstart companies don't try to be first to market and compromise on quality while jumping in here. I'm sure we'll see some noise, but the classics will take 6-12 months of development and play-testing.

 

[Reynard]

However, I do think it sad when some people restrict their attentions to only products made by WotC and ignore so many wonderful gaming books out there that surpass the 'official' material.

At the same time, you really can't blame someone who threw a bunch of money at third party products, thought 95% of the sucked, and decided that WotC was "the best".

 

[IronWolf]

Confidence and arrogance are not the same thing. Belief in oneself and disregard for others are not the same thing.

The statements in the initial post were made on WotC boards. It was not Mr. Ryan going over to other company's message boards and posting such things there. He is certainly entitled to say what he believes on his company's boards without necessarily being considered arrogant to the point of disrespecting another company or companies.

Again making such statements that you believe you make the best product in the business does not in and of itself mean they do not respect other gaming publishers.

 

[Sholari]

Unfortunately, over the past few years most of the d20 publishers decided that it was better for their business to compete directly with us, and abandoned adventures in favor of sourcebooks of the sort we already make (and make better than anyone else). As a result, the adventure market has been largely empty for the past few years. (And it's probably no coincidence that many d20 publishers seem to be struggling these days.)

I think for the great majority of D20 publishers Charles Ryan is absolutely right. WOTC has an incentive to build the system, whereas the great majority of publishers only need to profit off of it regardless of whether you negatively affect things like game balance, DM burnout, etc. All the publishers that continue to pump out splat books line their pockets so that players can find a way to break the system and it creates a real burden for DMs. However, there are definitely some notable exceptions such as Paizo, Privateer Press, etc. that have definitely added something to the long term benefit industry and not just profited off of it. It is kind of like online affiliate marketing. Affiliate marketers can be great at building web traffic and leads but unmanaged they can really cause some short term problems at the expense of the long term.

 

[Mercule]

I wonder how you reach that conclusion, given that you

Quite simple: I still read through things in Barnes & Noble (my local store has a surprisingly good d20 section) and LGS.

Malhavoc turns out some really good stuff. Unfortunately, the flavor of the AU stuff doesn't float my boat. I really need to take a look at the variant psionics, though.

Mongoose has been universally underwhelming. To a real extent, they've tainted other third parties by association. Somehow, they got to be a major player, while having the only claim to fame of never quite completely sucking without actually adding anything of value. There always seems to be more Mongoose product than anyone else's, so I've looked over a fair amount of it.

Green Ronin is one that I've seen very little of. They really do sound like someone I'd like to see more from.

Ditto on Privateer Press.

The one book I own is, IIRC, either AEG or FFG. Looked nice in the store, got it home and found it devoid of any real meat. Most of the rest of the products from those companies look about the same.

Some of the companies made a bad first impression on me when 3E first came out (WWGS' Sword & Sorcery imprint). There were some really bad design decisions that showed no eye toward actually paying attension to good design.

Others just don't interest me. I don't remember who is doing the new drow campaign hard-bounds, but I am so sick of drow that I don't even want to look at it. It was bad in the early ninties, and it's only gotten worse in the intervening 15 years.

 

[Aus_Snow]

To be honest, I'd hate to work at a company that doesn't believe it's the best at what it does. Especially if that company dominated the market like WotC does. Furthermore, remember that Wizards competes with FFG, Mongoose, Necromancer, etc.

They have to compete? Uh, no.

But companies believing they're the best? Hrumph. The people who work for companies know that's likely to be the official line, sure. But really? Most people feel that what's best (according to their subjective view) is best, no matter the hype. If that happily coincides with 'their' company, or even other companies that they have some kind of stake in, then that's kinda neat. Otherwise, who cares anyway? People can (and do) work very well, knowing that their workplace produces even substandard stuff, let alone average or 'just good'.

I do think it sad when some people restrict their attentions to only products made by WotC and ignore so many wonderful gaming books out there that surpass the 'official' material.

Likewise.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

WotC (or at least Charles Ryan) has dropped a few points in my books with this statement. Frankly, I have had little use for most WotC supplements.

There are some exceptions - I very much liked Unearthed Arcana, and have found Heroes of Battle useful, but the race books do not decorate my shelves at all. Almost any time that there is a direct comparison between a WotC book and the best of the non-WotC books then WotC loses. WotC has a high average, but they seldom go much above that average. Stormwrack vs. Book of the Sea (I take BotS with me and leave SW at home), Frost & Fur vs. Frostburn, the Quintessential series by Mongoose vs. the Complete series by WotC, Monsternomicon vs. Monster Manuals 2-3... all of these are no comparison to my jaundiced eyes.

The Auld Grump - on a scale of 1-10 I give WotC a fairly consistent 7.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I get the sense that these were not the replies that MerricB was expecting.

Very true, if you want WotC praise you definately don't come to ENWorld.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Quite simple: I still read through things in Barnes & Noble (my local store has a surprisingly good d20 section) and LGS.

Well hey, glad to hear it wasn't an unfounded claim.

Mongoose has been universally underwhelming.

I used to think that, prior to picking up Conan and a couple of other things. But fair enough, too.

Green Ronin is one that I've seen very little of. They really do sound like someone I'd like to see more from.

Judging from the reviews their books consistently get (from a wide variety of roleplayers), I'd personally suggest it might be worth your while to have a look. Well, that and the fact I use several of their books a lot (particularly the Book of Fiends and Advanced Bestiary lately).

Some of the companies made a bad first impression on me when 3E first came out (WWGS' Sword & Sorcery imprint). There were some really bad design decisions that showed no eye toward actually paying attension to good design.

Yep. I've never been a big fan of S&SS either.

Others just don't interest me. I don't remember who is doing the new drow campaign hard-bounds, but I am so sick of drow that I don't even want to look at it. It was bad in the early ninties, and it's only gotten worse in the intervening 15 years.

Heh, yeah. I think it's Mongoose btw, but I'm not sure.

if you want WotC praise, definitely come to ENWorld

Fixed this for you.


I've praised several of their books myself even. Who'da thought?

 

[Mercule]

I used to think that, prior to picking up Conan and a couple of other things. But fair enough, too.

I haven't seen Conan, but it does sound like something I'd be interested in -- at least to pillage some ideas.

I also expect Iron Heroes to find its way into my hands, as a third-party book that looks killer.