Charles Ryan on Adventures

[Mercule]

In my initial post, I was merely concerned that Mr. Ryan's statement makes it look like WotC views 3rd party publishers as competitors now, not allies.

I am absolutely not speaking for CR, nor am I reading this into what he said:

It is really not the fault of WotC that there may have been a change from ally to adversary. WotC were pretty up-front about seeing other publishers filling gaps that WotC didn't or couldn't fill. They had that attitude from before the SRD was released. I remember adventures being called out, specifically.

Instead, other parties have decided to take on WotC where they've already staked their claim. Class books and race books are a major one, in my mind. Please don't tell me that anyone could not have seen those as a likely candidate for WotC to publish.

On the other hand, campaign settings -- especially niche settings like Midnight and Conan -- are something with potential. Likewise, monster and spell books are something that the market can probably bear a good load of. Environment books, like "Frost and Fur" were a great idea, unfortunately, no one ran with it earlier.

And the biggest category that seems to do well is alternate rulesets. Arcana Unearthed/Evolved is hugely popular, as is World of Warcraft. Everquest RPG had a nice run, too. Plus Spycraft, Mutants and Masterminds, and a few others.

 

[jokamachi]

This is a load of hogwash. The adventure market has NOT been empty for the past couple years. It has been churning out better and better stuff. Look at Goodman games. Look at Necromancer. Hello, wotc?? Pull your heads out.

This is wizards way of saying the market isn't ready for 4e and they need to run out the clock with something other than endless sourcebooks which, by the way, aren't selling as well as they used to.

 

[The Shaman]

I appreciate that Mr. Ryan took the time to weigh in.

 

[Banshee16]

That's an odd statement for Charles to make....that WotC makes supplements better than anyone else? Ahem.....Black Company Campaign Setting, Blue Rose, Rokugan (the AEG book, not Swashbuckling Adventures), Book of Eldritch Might, etc. etc.

There are plenty of other companies making products as good or better than WotC...

Banshee

 

[Aus_Snow]

We have a distinct and unsurmountable competitive advantage in the category of core supplements.

Naturally.

We have the highest production values

Whether that's honest opinion or just spin, it certainly ain't universal truth, and that's that.

the economy of scale to carry them out in every single product.

Apparently.

We have core designers who know the game better than anyone--and not just the game as you see it on the shelves now, but also as it's evolving in products that won't be out for another six months or a year.

That is untrue, and someone needs to call you on this one. Might as well be me, today. Your 'core designers' frequently klutz things up royally, just as much as most other d20 companies, and more than some. And as for the game as it will be evolving etc.? That isn't just up to WotC, and hasn't been for quite a while now. Many 'third-party' products have reshaped the game as much as - or more than - Wizards' books.

We have the most powerful brand in gaming--perhaps in fantasy overall.

Again, naturally.

we have the largest, most experienced collection of game-design minds assembled on this planet.

Again, not really. It's partly just who happens to work there. After all, several of WotC's brightest ended up elsewhere, and doing very well at those places, no?

Oh yeah, and we're just darn good. Of course I believe that--if I didn't, I'd go work for someone else!

Fair enough, if (as you claim) that is one of your motivations for working there. Even if so, that might not be the case for every single employee. Realistically, the chances are, I'd say.

hopefully that clears things up a bit!

I think it has made certain of your views more apparent, yes.

 

[Banshee16]

What's wrong with Wizards people thinking they do work better then anyone else? Heck, at my work I fgel I do a better job then my co workers. It's a bit arrogant of me, but confidence in one's ability is not a bad thing.

Insulting one's competitors is. Anybody in sales knows this

Great way to drive the customer to the other guy.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

I am absolutely not speaking for CR, nor am I reading this into what he said:

It is really not the fault of WotC that there may have been a change from ally to adversary. WotC were pretty up-front about seeing other publishers filling gaps that WotC didn't or couldn't fill. They had that attitude from before the SRD was released. I remember adventures being called out, specifically.

Instead, other parties have decided to take on WotC where they've already staked their claim. Class books and race books are a major one, in my mind. Please don't tell me that anyone could not have seen those as a likely candidate for WotC to publish.

On the other hand, campaign settings -- especially niche settings like Midnight and Conan -- are something with potential. Likewise, monster and spell books are something that the market can probably bear a good load of. Environment books, like "Frost and Fur" were a great idea, unfortunately, no one ran with it earlier.

And the biggest category that seems to do well is alternate rulesets. Arcana Unearthed/Evolved is hugely popular, as is World of Warcraft. Everquest RPG had a nice run, too. Plus Spycraft, Mutants and Masterminds, and a few others.

Why wouldn't companies take WotC on with some of the generic books? WotC doesn't have a monopoly on creative thought, or knowledge of the game. Many of the writers for various D20 companies have at various times been WotC employees. WotC appears less willing to take chances than the smaller publishers....personally, that's one reason *why* I like Green Ronin, Malhavoc, Fantasy Flight Games, Privateer Press products. They often take the game in directions that WotC is way too reluctant to go. They get out of the "safe zone". And, many of the products I've seen have far less of the "cheese" factor that WotC includes in most products nowadays.

Not that WotC products are all bad. They're not. The Environment series was very cool. Eberron is showing some potential. Magic of Incarnum is new. But many other products by D20 companies have been just as good and in some cases better.

Banshee

 

[Psion]

But here's the thing (and this also speaks to my comment about WotC making the best hardcover supplements): We have a distinct and unsurmountable competitive advantage in the category of core supplements. We have the highest production values, and the economy of scale to carry them out in every single product. We have core designers who know the game better than anyone--and not just the game as you see it on the shelves now, but also as it's evolving in products that won't be out for another six months or a year. We have the most powerful brand in gaming--perhaps in fantasy overall. And we have the largest, most experienced collection of game-design minds assembled on this planet. The tastes of any individual on these boards notwithstanding, for these reasons we will alway dominate the market for hardcover core d20 supplements.

Thanks for stopping by, Charles.

If you are talking about production values and sales, yeah, few can even compete.

My definition of what makes a product the "best" is rather different, however. Production values are nice, but content, creativity, and utility are king. And I certainly feel that other prublishers put out products that have more than competed in this area, and likewise, WotC has put out some disappointments in this area. Production values are, to me, a secondary consideration. And sales matter not at all. If a good book is in my possession, it does not matter how many other people bought it.

I am intrigued by new titles coming down the pipe, however, and am pleased to see WotC dipping into some of the talent that the third parties have produced. I think that the great "big name diaspora" of WotC hurt their product line more than they admit, and like to think pulling in more authors represents a sort of return to greatness.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Part of the problem is one of measurement and definition. How do you define "better" or "best"?

If it's "most fun to read" or "most useful in a game," well, there's no reliable metric. It's going to vary based on people's opinions, their style of play... Heck, the mood they're in at the time.

The only measurable metrics of "quality," when comparing Book X to Book Y (assuming they're on roughly the same topic) are:

1) Reliability of rules/math.
2) Production values.
3) Sales.

Yes, those are poor indicators of quality. I'm not arguing otherwise. But they're the only measurable ones.

And certainly by those three factors, WotC does, indeed, maintain a clear lead, or at least break even, with the other best companies in the biz. They've had some misfires, sure, and other companies have had some home runs. But taken as an aggregate, WotC's on top here.

 

[Sholari]

Wow, what an arrogant post by that guy. Makes me really glad I don't usually buy WOTC books. Which I do mostly because of lack of quality. But now I won't buy them because of him.

It might come off as arrogant but he is absolutely right. The proliferation of stuff has fragmented the industry leading to a lack of any sort of standardization. For retailers this creates a broader spectrum of slower moving product driving up inventory cost and creating a very confusing situation for new gamers. The result is that more retailers start to go out of business and fewer new gamers come into the hobby. For the player base it makes it much more difficult to get any sort of agreement among variants serving as a deterrent to group formation.