Charm Person / Mind Bender's Eternal Charm Person

Hello there,

I'm going to start a game in which one player will play a Sorcerer/Mind Bender.

(ranty paranthesis: he's going to be a sorcerer (blaster) that charmed a blackguard (melee monster), has Improved Familiar (imp, spy) and wanted to take Leadership (healer cohort). He'll be his own frickin' party)

I was wondering if unconsciousness or death cancels charm person, and if there are any limits to how many people can be charmed at a time. I didn't find much regarding this, so I'm dreading having to deal with a horde of charmed creatures AND the other players who'll basically feel useless.

Thx in advance

AR
 

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Theroc

First Post
Hello there,

I'm going to start a game in which one player will play a Sorcerer/Mind Bender.

(ranty paranthesis: he's going to be a sorcerer (blaster) that charmed a blackguard (melee monster), has Improved Familiar (imp, spy) and wanted to take Leadership (healer cohort). He'll be his own frickin' party)

I was wondering if unconsciousness or death cancels charm person, and if there are any limits to how many people can be charmed at a time. I didn't find much regarding this, so I'm dreading having to deal with a horde of charmed creatures AND the other players who'll basically feel useless.

Thx in advance

AR

Have you considered just telling the player he is not allowed to be his own party? As the DM you are allowed to change and bends rules for the maximum enjoyment of the group as a whole. I'm not trying to say you should prevent him from doing everything, but perhaps... put some limitations on how many cohort-ish things he can have... (Maybe allowing him more leeway if he somehow gets separated from the party for awhile...)

It sounds like your player is trying to cover all his bases so that he doesn't need to concern himself with the other players at all. I don't know if that's the case or not, but if it is, you may want to nudge him to let the other players have a chance at the glory too.
 

Charm is one of the most misunderstood spells in the game. It does not allow you to control creatures. It allows you to make them friendly to you.

I would never allow a player to control creatures under the effects of a charm spell. It's charmed, not enslaved (that's the dominate person spell).

Think about your best friend. Just because he's hanging out with gangbanger biker convicts, that doesn't mean you have to go along for the ride.

"Friend, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one" are words that will come in handy.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
Mindbender is kind of a trap for those who can't figure out how long dominate person lasts at the level when you can finally cast it. So he shows poor planning right out of the gate. No-one should ever take Mindbender.

Charm person, as has been mentioned, really is the most overestimated effect in the game. Basically, if you can't do it via Diplomacy, you can't do it with charm person.

He can have an Imp and a Healer. That's not a whole party, but it's not terrible.

Cheers, -- N
 

Starbuck_II

First Post
Charm is one of the most misunderstood spells in the game. It does not allow you to control creatures. It allows you to make them friendly to you.

I would never allow a player to control creatures under the effects of a charm spell. It's charmed, not enslaved (that's the dominate person spell).
Charisma checks says otherwise according to spell description: pass those and you are controlling them (until you fail).
 

Jack Simth

First Post
Mindbender is kind of a trap for those who can't figure out how long dominate person lasts at the level when you can finally cast it. So he shows poor planning right out of the gate. No-one should ever take Mindbender.
Mindbender is a one-level dip PrC. The other nine levels are the trap. The first level is a bit too front-loaded for proper balance.
Charm person, as has been mentioned, really is the most overestimated effect in the game. Basically, if you can't do it via Diplomacy, you can't do it with charm person.
You can too control them - it just requires an opposed Charisma check to force them to go along with something they normally wouldn't. As a Sorcerer, he'll be passing a lot of Charisma checks... but then, so will the Blackgaurd with the Charisma-powered class abilities...
He can have an Imp and a Healer. That's not a whole party, but it's not terrible.

Cheers, -- N
If he really wanted an entire party to himself, he'd pick up the Mother Cyst feat, and do a bit of the initial steps of Planar Binding....
 

The above posts are why the spell is so misunderstood and overestimated.

From the spell description:
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do.

Bolded parts important.

A DM is well within the description of the spell to have the charmed creature react how it would normally react were it inclined to do so. Just because your bestest bud tells you to do something doesn't mean you have to do it exactly the way he says. And if you're got a player trying to abuse the spell, a good DM will use that latitude to get things back under control.
 

Starbuck_II

First Post
The above posts are why the spell is so misunderstood and overestimated.

From the spell description:
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do.

Bolded parts important.

A DM is well within the description of the spell to have the charmed creature react how it would normally react were it inclined to do so. Just because your bestest bud tells you to do something doesn't mean you have to do it exactly the way he says. And if you're got a player trying to abuse the spell, a good DM will use that latitude to get things back under control.
Dude, re-read your own post, please.

If I make the opposed Cha check he follows my orders even if he wouldn't ordinarily do so. That is controlling.
 

insanogeddon

First Post
shall not pass !!

Not a drama, apply the rules.
1. PCs and NPCs alike buff/rely on magic and thus likely multiple times per combat vs any with the ability to do so Dispel Magics will probably go off... the tide turns!
2. Backguards are evil incarnate... hang round one and sooner or later you will get into trouble.
3. Blackguards ain't overly 'nice' to their friends.
4. They have sunder as a required feat... whoops I sundered that useless staff the enemy was using.
5. Blackguards have and eura of evil... attracts drama.
6. Chr bonus to saves. Chr as a class given = Good luck ordering him/her more than 60% of the time.. NO RETRIES !
7. Better hope no protection from evil/good etc go off
8. The Blackguards fiendish servant is a gift from hell... it might come to suspect and inform its masters/cut an exposed sleeping sorcerers throat... or just attack triggering an attack against it and a auto break or another save from the Blackguard. If the PC is smart and the Servant is charmed its divided loyalties might give the blackguard a heads up to re-roll the save.
9. Convincing it to do something (one action) it doesn't want to do is a chr check... thats a wasted combat action = action wasted as you blabber on saying pleeeassssse do it for me o luver luver. NO RETRIES !!
In my experience all Blackguards are pretty individualistic/stubborn and contrary so even getting him/her to stand to go on watch might be a issue.
10. "NEVER obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders"

and of course any time you or allies hit the butt monkey... spell ends. Alas poor fireball placement/'confused' (as confusion)/critical misses (if you play them)/sneaky Elusive Target feat holding NPCs channeling allies attacks into the blackguard etc

PS: No limits on charmed creatures but the class ability may be limited.
 

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