D&D 5E Charm, the evil spells

[HammerMan]

When you talked about conmen convincing people to do things. But provide another definition then!

forcing your will on others... this can be through trick, through drug, through magic... but it is making someone go against what they would naturally do... talking in most normal fashions can not do so. You can change someones mind by bringing new fact to light or by rephraseing or by even recontextulizing information... all without being manipulative, all without gas lighting, all without con jobing people... all without being a grifter.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

forcing your will on others... this can be through trick, through drug, through magic... but it is making someone go against what they would naturally do... talking in most normal fashions can not do so. You can change someones mind by bringing new fact to light or by rephraseing or by even recontextulizing information... all without being manipulative, all without gas lighting, all without con jobing people... all without being a grifter.

Yeah, sorry this is way too nebulous. Talking to people is not mind control, and "making someone go against what they would naturally do" could just as well apply to a therapist convincing an addict to drop drugs.

 

[Mirtek]

And I don't expect the WotC ninjas to show up at your game to try to stop you.

No one expects the WotC ninjas. Or sees them coming. That's why they're ninjas!

 

[HammerMan]

Yeah, sorry this is way too nebulous. Talking to people is not mind control, and "making someone go against what they would naturally do" could just as well apply to a therapist convincing an addict to drop drugs.

okay... so then lets stick to magic and game mechanics that force strangers to treat you like a friendly aquentence, or lets you tell them something and they have to do it, or allows you to take control of them and issue them orders (since that is what started the thread...charm/suggestion/friends/dominate)

 

[ad_hoc]

I'm actually seeing charm abilities in a better light than I thought I would at first.

Is Glamour Bard's Enthralling Performance evil?

When the PCs do it - probably not
When the antagonists do it - probably

When it is done against NPCs it is basically an instruction to the DM on how to have the NPCs react. It's written as a PC power. If the DM were to give the power (or similar) to an NPC to use on the players then it would be stripping them of their free will and as they are the heroes this is bad.

 

[HammerMan]

When it is done against NPCs it is basically an instruction to the DM on how to have the NPCs react. It's written as a PC power. If the DM were to give the power (or similar) to an NPC to use on the players then it would be stripping them of their free will and as they are the heroes this is bad.

if the test as to weather or not a mechanic is good or evil is if it is used on a PC seems weird...

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm actually seeing charm abilities in a better light than I thought I would at first.

Is Glamour Bard's Enthralling Performance evil?

When the PCs do it - probably not
When the antagonists do it - probably

When it is done against NPCs it is basically an instruction to the DM on how to have the NPCs react. It's written as a PC power. If the DM were to give the power (or similar) to an NPC to use on the players then it would be stripping them of their free will and as they are the heroes this is bad.

Sure seems relative to me. The great debate on the nature of good and evil continues!

 

[Faolyn]

YES

YES

These things here--immobilizing people and blinding or deafening them--aren't rape. They are, however, assault.

 

[HammerMan]

These things here--immobilizing people and blinding or deafening them--aren't rape. They are, however, assault.

I think the hold person is on the line

 

[Mirtek]

Not unless you think your opinion is the same as facts.

Like the people claiming mind controll being inherently evil?