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Pathfinder 1E Check Out The Beta For Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous

Owlcat Studios -- who made the Pathfinder: Kingmaker video game -- has released the beta version of its upcoming Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, along with the new combat gameplay trailer.



The beta -- which is based on the Pathfinder 1E rules -- is available to Kickstarter backers. The Kickstarter made over $2M last year. To download the beta you need to log in to your account on Owlcat Games' website (which isn't loading for me right now) but you can read more about the beta here.
 

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

TheAlkaizer

Game Designer
Their previous Pathfinder game made it in and out of my Steam's cart numerous times. From what I'm reading it seems to be neither great or terrible, but just passable and forgettable. Maybe this one will convince me to pull the trigger!
 

Mercador

Explorer
Their previous Pathfinder game made it in and out of my Steam's cart numerous times. From what I'm reading it seems to be neither great or terrible, but just passable and forgettable. Maybe this one will convince me to pull the trigger!
I'm pretty sure it will be offered on the Epic Game Store before long (the first one)
 

TheSword

Legend
To be fair Kingmaker was a pretty cool game. The first I’ve seen to convincingly mix kingdom building and rpg. And have both matter rather than one or the other be a minor addition.

Yes it’s difficult, but you do get to set the difficulty as you see fit. Good NPCs, lots of side quests. Takes you right up to high level play. What’s not to like?!
 


EthanSental

Adventurer
Kingmaker was well done and enjoyable. I didn’t get pulled in like the old Baldurs gate, planscape, Diablo style games but I don’t have the time/desire to sit and play for hours like my younger self did. I’ll still download this when it comes out and see what I think.
 

Rabulias

Hero
Though the fact that they are building it with PF1 rules set as a base is just another damning testimony of PF2 as far as I’m concerned. I get there was already an engine but come on, it doesn’t look good!
I have not played Pathfinder 2e, so I have no dog in the fight, but the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path (like Kingmaker before it) was written for Pathfinder 1e. So there's that, too.
 

TheSword

Legend
I have not played Pathfinder 2e, so I have no dog in the fight, but the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path (like Kingmaker before it) was written for Pathfinder 1e. So there's that, too.
Yes. That is true. Though certainly kingmaker departed a long way from the core AP story and the spells, monsters, classes, items exist in both editions. Indeed monsters are pretty far removed from the stats for their TTRPg equivalent.

It seems like a missed opportunity to welcome people to the new rules. I guess it was Owlcats decision though.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
I wonder if they'll release a special tabletop adventure to go along with this. The Kingmaker game had one released for it called The Puzzle Box, so it'll be awesome if they release another one for Wrath of the Righteous.
 

dalisprime

Explorer
To be fair Kingmaker was a pretty cool game. The first I’ve seen to convincingly mix kingdom building and rpg. And have both matter rather than one or the other be a minor addition.

Yes it’s difficult, but you do get to set the difficulty as you see fit. Good NPCs, lots of side quests. Takes you right up to high level play. What’s not to like?!
The kingdom management part is what's not to like there. Perhaps I missed it during the tutorial but the game gives you no indication of the consequences of failing the kingdom table quests which can lead to a game over before you can even reach the final section of the game. Now if there was a solid way to recover from failure outside save scumming I wouldn't mind, but there's none. Failure at the table has a snowball effect. Get a few unlucky failures early and you're all but guaranteed to be failing later missions.
The final section also has way too many annoying trash mobs that have a tendency to stunlock you into oblivion.
Until you get crowned as the king, the game is pretty cool, but once you start fighting for the survival of your kingdom (and suddenly find yourself unable to stave off the foreign power meddling in your affairs because you were unlucky early on) it becomes an exercise in frustration.
 

Justice and Rule

Adventurer
Yes. That is true. Though certainly kingmaker departed a long way from the core AP story and the spells, monsters, classes, items exist in both editions. Indeed monsters are pretty far removed from the stats for their TTRPg equivalent.

It seems like a missed opportunity to welcome people to the new rules. I guess it was Owlcats decision though.

I do wonder how the structural changes of PF2 would translate to a CRPG. I didn't play Kingmaker, but it was basically in the classic Infinity Engine style, right? Would a 3-Action system work for that?
 

silentdante

Explorer
pathfinder: kingmaker was a dumpster fire when it launched
they fixed the game in about 6 months and it is one of the best ever made. i think the characters are interesting, a lot of them from the pathfinder universe/novels, and the story is great. the kingdom building part is good, not great, but i played for the RPG crunch-ness and you cant beat it in any other modern TTRPG-like video game. the sheer number of options for the PC and if you want to build your own party, is massive. the campaign books this is based off of were well liked and they didnt naughty word the story up, it's still good.

can they pull it off with the second game? i dunno, but so far there are some interesting new NPC's and even MOAR PC crunch available. there are quite a few quality of life improvements to this over kingmaker. the story starts interestingly enough and i havent gotten to the army leading part of the beta yet. i am also interested to see how choosing the mythic path will effect the game and choices with a few of those to choose from too. i honestly think since all the old D&D games 9baldurs gate/planscape torment etc.) and say arcanum, we havent seen actual crunchy RPG's for the PC/Console unless you go real obscure, and some of those are decent. i think owlcat knock the pathfinder crpg out of the park.
 
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Inchoroi

Adventurer
I'm not a big fan of the graphics. Like, give me Baldur's Gate 3's engine & design, but Wrath of the Righteous as the story, and I would throw my wallet to the moon to get it.
 

TheSword

Legend
The kingdom management part is what's not to like there. Perhaps I missed it during the tutorial but the game gives you no indication of the consequences of failing the kingdom table quests which can lead to a game over before you can even reach the final section of the game. Now if there was a solid way to recover from failure outside save scumming I wouldn't mind, but there's none. Failure at the table has a snowball effect. Get a few unlucky failures early and you're all but guaranteed to be failing later missions.
The final section also has way too many annoying trash mobs that have a tendency to stunlock you into oblivion.
Until you get crowned as the king, the game is pretty cool, but once you start fighting for the survival of your kingdom (and suddenly find yourself unable to stave off the foreign power meddling in your affairs because you were unlucky early on) it becomes an exercise in frustration.
Ahh, I found the kingdom building pretty easy once I realized that opportunities were optional and problems weren’t.

Maybe because when I played there was the boost option for making kingdom rolls. I’m not sure if it was there at the start. I also put a bit of wealth from adventuring into the kingdoms buildings.
 
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rknop

Adventurer
The boost option was not there originally in the kingdom building rules.

I like the kingdom building aspect of the game, but some of it is frustrating in the game design. The DCs for the things you have to do scale faster than you can reasonably raise the bonuses for enough of your ministers that you're eventually faced with a bunch of problems that all have 15% or less chance of success. Usually, at that point, you've built up enough of a buffer in your kingdom stats that you can take a few failures without it being too much of a death spiral. But, it does slow down your advancement, which means it slows down the rate at which you can raise your advisor's stats.... I've played through the game a few times. First time, I had to go back about a year of game time after my game ended because of kingdom failure. Later times had the boost option, which helped, although I did a little save scumming.

One thing I did figure out: once you get the "main threat" of each chapter, there will be kingdom hits for not having dealt with it yet. For instance, in the trolls chapter, you'll get kingdom events about rampaging trolls (or perhaps just negative status modifiers? I don't remember). You have to complete the main threat to make that go away. After that, you have the rest of the 180 (or whatever) days before the beginning of the next chapter to explore the map, do side/character quests, and work on building your kingdom. It's annoying that you have to spend 2 weeks of game time doing nothing other than ranking up and advisor or claiming a region, but at some level that becomes part of the resource management of the game. It's just an unwritten rule that you have to do the main story of each chapter right away.

The other thing is: when you get down to less than one month before the time of the current "Ancient Curse", you have to be very careful. At some point before that counter reaches 0 (I think it's at 14 days), you can go to Bald Hilltop and deal with that one encounter. If you don't, you get daily hits to all your kingdom stats; when the counter reaches 0, you fail the game. So, if you have 17 days left, and start a two-week rank up (foolishly thinking that 17 is greater than 14, and knowing that Bald Hilltop plus travel time takes less than a day), you take a gigantic penalty. So, you have to walk carefully once the Ancient Curse timeout gets below 20 days or so.

(I also got in the habit of saving my game right before doing one of those two week "rank up" delays, because sometimes even when Ancient Curse wasn't coming, there would be a "surprise, you didn't do anything when an event came up, here are some penalties!" thrown at you at the end of that two week jump.)
Another frustrating thing are the mysterious things that can raise or lower your Unrest. Sometimes, decisions you make when talking to advisors will make Unrest better or worse, and almost never is it obvious ahead of time what that might be. (Very rarely, you might guess based on the sort of decision you're making.) I would just notice after a while that my Unrest was "Worried" or "Troubled" rather than "Stable"; I'd hover over it, and realize that a decision I'd made three months ago in game time (meaning I didn't want to go back and reload from that long ago) had made me take a hit on my Unrest. Can be quite annoying.
 

Kingmaker had some issues but it is one of my favorite games of the last 5 years. Played through it 3 times. Looking forward to this one. I'd like to see a 2E PF game but with the 3 action system I feel like a turn based over RWTP might be the better standard mode for it. I think 2E is more easily translatable to a videogame just with how the system works. I have no problem if they just keep doing 1E either though and I will play them all.
 



rknop

Adventurer
Incidentally, the latest release (as of last... October?) of Kingmaker -- I think they called it the "Definitive Edition" -- does have a turn-based mode.
 

Jharet

Explorer
Kingmaker was great, Probably the best dungeoncrawler of its type since Balder's Gate.

Wrath of the Righteous has to be Pathfinder 1st, as there are no mythic rules for PF2 and most likely never will be.
 

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