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Mirtek

Hero
It's not a rule, it's just a recommendation.
Being locked in once you play a S4 is a restrictive rule not an recommendation.

your options were pretty limited, not because of some "rule", but because you can't play what people aren't running.
And S4 needlesly limits the options to join a random smattering of mods even more

Also, you seem to have missed the part where I explicitly said "there really isn't a wrong way to play in that sense".
With S4 there is. Just joining whatever random mod from whatever random season just by having a character of the right tier is now forbidden once that charavter played a S4 mod

If you're not invested in the story and just want to play a campaign game, that's cool. The admins and WotC go to some effort to make sure there's an interesting story in each storyline season, though, so it makes sense that they'd want people to be aware of that.
And a recommendation would Gully suffice for that.
 

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CapnZapp

Legend
Mirtek: okay so you have made your opinion known - now I honestly suggest you accept the decision and move on.

Season 4 will have this restriction, end of story. Nothing good can come out of infecting the discussion.
 

Steve_MND

First Post
Maybe -- sounds like your store liked to run lots of different events, benefiting players with a stable of characters who could then swap out from table to table depending on which table needed what character or what magic item might drop from the module on a given table. That's not a 'wrong' way to play -- there really isn't a 'wrong' way to play in that sense -- but it's not the style of play the storyline seasons were designed to support.

On the contrary, we have a very small pool of players to work with. We maybe have two players that can be there every Saturday, maybe another two that are usually able to make it, and then another three or four that are pretty much random based on their schedules. Any others, when they appear, are random card gamers or college kids who try a game out once or twice, then move on -- usually because they do not like the particular structure of an Organized Play campaign. So most of our Saturday AL games are a toss up, assuming we get enough people. We don't have the luxury of a large gaming pool to pull from in our podunk town, and until just a few years ago, we didn't even have a local gaming store since the last one had closed down some five years prior.

We have a large stable of characters, but that's out of necessity, not intent or preference. We've played so many of the various AL mods so many times -- especially the various low-tier ones -- because we have such an erratic schedule, and that getting people together to play a specific mod that someone needs means the rest of us often have to make new PCs to accompany them so we can have a legal table.

Unfortunately, with the 'no exit' approach to Season 4, we cannot operate with that back-and-forth option. If we have a new player who drops in and would like to play some S4, then we need to create new characters to accompany him -- we can't just bring in a pre-existing one from our 'stable' as we could in seasons prior. That's okay in and of itself, as wer'e used to making new characters over and over again, but the real problem is if some of us end up missing the 'exit' mod from the season, due to our erratic schedules. Presumably that's near (or at the end), which means a higher-level adventure, which means we're unlikely to want to pull an established higher-level character -- that you've put two years of work into -- in for a random game in Season 4 if they can't be guaranteed a way out.

I understand the idea of the Mists and the 'locked' aspect in an 'Encounters' run, or a hardback campaign, but not in the regular season of an Organized Play campaign. And while I agree with you that there is no one way to play, there are certain defining characteristics of an Organized Play campaign of this type to begin with, and the the lack of a required linear play order is one of those immutable pilars upon which OP is supposed to be built upon, specifically because Organized Play is defined by its 'play wherever, whenever' approach. Which is something that Season 4's lockout aspect goes directly against.

But all of this is largely moot; people have brought this concern to the staff since before Season 4 was announced, when people were thought-experimenting on how the Mists might work in an Organized Play setup. I still hold out hope that when Season 4 actually gets here, there will be some sort of allowance made for people who are unable, through no fault of their own, to play the restrictive exit mods(s), so they do not have to potentially just write off that character.

Maybe an expensive time unit payment to get out? I don't know, but unless something like that is in place, at least for our local group, we'll be doing far less AL in Season 4 that we ever have in the previous three.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
At this point, everything is just speculation -- only the admins know what the exit mechanic is, and they're not telling until the mods are released.

Based on the number of times I've asked a question only to find the admins have already anticipated me, I'm willing to bet that these concerns are not going to end up being a big deal.

With that said, I'm pleased that the admins seem willing to enforce the setting for Ravenloft by seemingly not making it a simple 'walk in, walk out' style of play -- if they did that, it would do some amount of violence to the setting and make it less enjoyable for those who like that sort of thing. We've had three seasons of 'walk in, walk out' play; the idea that one out of four seasons might not support that style isn't campaign-breaking, or shouldn't be anyway.

--
Pauper
 

Mirtek: okay so you have made your opinion known - now I honestly suggest you accept the decision and move on.

Season 4 will have this restriction, end of story. Nothing good can come out of infecting the discussion.

Wow!! Kinda harsh and condescending mate!! Since when is a dissenting opinion infectious? Sure things are what they are and we will either play S4 or totally ignore S4 but the points he brings up are serious concerns. There are many scenarios that foster exclusion of new and existing players and that is a really big deal. I for one would be very hesitant to bring a friend to play if we are beyond the t-1 adventures. Something like that would require the rest of the table to start over.
 

I do not think some folks here are taking into account that whats happening this season is a complete change to how we have done things in the past. encounters/expeditions are rebranded, Monetization of AL adventures, and what appears to be a restricted campaign season that goes away from the plug and play we utilize to introduce new players. please take that into account before you reply.
 

Steve_MND

First Post
Wow!! Kinda harsh and condescending mate!

He's probably referring to the fact that all this (like the 'legal sources' discussion that went south elsewhere) has been brought up and discussed quite thoroughly previously... starting even back a little bit before we even definitively knew there was a Ravenloft in the works. Unfortunately i suspect that the tight story-arc for Season 4 was already well underway by that point, and even if the Staff felt we brought up a viable concern, it was too late to actually scrap everything and redo it all.

Personally, at this point, I'm holding out for some sort of 'emergency jettison' feature if your character misses the 'exit mod;' something like you spend 20/30/however many Time Units to escape the Mists. Something expensive to keep people from using it randomly and thus watering down the whole trapping aspect, but some avenue still available so unlucky players aren't screwed over just because they missed a key session.

As to the DMGuild stuff and all, yeah, that was as much a surprise to the non-WotC staff as it was to the rest of us, and that's going to be a gamechanger. Unfortunately, it coincides with the different aspects being attempted in Season 4, so there's little to no strong benchmark for comparing the effect this will have on gameplay. We'll have to wait and see for now.

FWIW, I 100% completely and totally am behind them in the de-linking of AL gameplay with host stores. As someone with just a very small game store in my area (and until recently, none), I didn't like the fact that AL had been largely unavailable to all those players out there that might not have had any participating stores at all near them. I had been arguing against that stance from the get go, and am pleased to see that it eventually changed.
 
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Steve - I am sorry for my reaction, but that post seemed too much like "Shut up, go away, and play what I tell you to play" to me. Portraying opposing viewpoints as an infection alienates those that disagree with things. If you cannot discuss opposing viewpoints, then whats the point of having feedback.
 

Mirtek

Hero
it was too late to actually scrap everything and redo it all.
Theres no need to redo anything, the story can stay as tight they want, some players simply chose to not expirience it this way. Anyone who rather want to do it that way would be free to just not use the Option to play outside inbetwen
 

Coredump

Explorer
There are definitely some potential problems with the 'stuck' and 'in order' nature of season 4. No doubt about it.... I keep thinking of ways that it could go annoyingly bad.

But I am still glad they did it. I think it could also go really well... a better story, likely played with the same PCs, Ravenloft 'stuck' feel, etc etc.

It may turn out to be more trouble than benefit....but I am glad they were not scared away from taking the chance.


It is my totally uninformed guess....that sometime after Season 4, they will allow a mechanism for getting out. I think there is a chance that they may just make it easier to pop in and out in general (after the season ends), but if not that, at least someway to get out if you can't play the right DDAL mod.
 

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