Chill Touch Poll

[Krelios]

Option two, but the caster most certainly does not lose the charges if he casts another spell... or goes to sleep... or is knocked unconcious... or is killed...

Fire and forget spell system. This is an instant effect that enchants your hands. It can't be dispelled either, per RAW, But you could use "break enchantment".

Not according to the RAW...

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge

In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

 

[ARandomGod]

Not according to the RAW...

Yea... I know the rules regarding touch spells and holding the charge. I just don't think that this is a spell that uses those rules. It's not a touch spell that holds a charge at all.

It's an instant enchant spell, that enchants your hands so that the next X touches (where X is the caster level) has the spell effect.

Normally you have to make a touch attack, simply because people will normally avoid your glowing hands when you approach them in a certain menacing way. However it's very plain (to me) that there is no further concentration needed to "maintain" the spell. It's not a touch spell that has a charge to be held, it's an instant spell which enchants your hands.

So sure, THOSE type of spells would need concentration. By definition, by RAW. But the rules as written pretty clearly (to me) clearly don't have this spell as one of those spells. It's in a different class altogether, alibeit one that closely resembles that class.

Edit: To reiterate. This is not a touch spell that uses holding the charge. You simply CANNOT hold this charge, no matter how hard you try. It does not use that mechanic. Instead your next X touches WILL have the effect listed in the spell. There is no other option. ALthough a Break Enchantment, Wish, Limited Wish, or Miracle could probably alter this. And an antimagic shell would certainly supress the effect. Dispel magic and even Greater Dispell magic wouldn't work.

 

[Krelios]

Yea... I know the rules regarding touch spells and holding the charge. I just don't think that this is a spell that uses those rules. It's not a touch spell that holds a charge at all.

It's an instant enchant spell, that enchants your hands so that the next X touches (where X is the caster level) has the spell effect.

Normally you have to make a touch attack, simply because people will normally avoid your glowing hands when you approach them in a certain menacing way. However it's very plain (to me) that there is no further concentration needed to "maintain" the spell. It's not a touch spell that has a charge to be held, it's an instant spell which enchants your hands.

So sure, THOSE type of spells would need concentration. By definition, by RAW. But the rules as written pretty clearly (to me) clearly don't have this spell as one of those spells. It's in a different class altogether, alibeit one that closely resembles that class.

Edit: To reiterate. This is not a touch spell that uses holding the charge. You simply CANNOT hold this charge, no matter how hard you try. It does not use that mechanic. Instead your next X touches WILL have the effect listed in the spell. There is no other option. ALthough a Break Enchantment, Wish, Limited Wish, or Miracle could probably alter this. And an antimagic shell would certainly supress the effect. Dispel magic and even Greater Dispell magic wouldn't work.

Fair enough, I suppose, and if it works for your group, then who am I to tell you you're wrong? For what it's worth I see it as an issue similar to magic items slots--just like you can't wear two sets of magic gloves and have them both function, you can't hold two enchantments on your hands. I choose to use the ruling for holding a charge for Chill Touch, but if you were my DM, I'd certainly buy your argument as well.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I choose Option Two, same as FireLance, but it's a houserule.

 

[ARandomGod]

Fair enough, I suppose, and if it works for your group, then who am I to tell you you're wrong? For what it's worth I see it as an issue similar to magic items slots--just like you can't wear two sets of magic gloves and have them both function, you can't hold two enchantments on your hands. I choose to use the ruling for holding a charge for Chill Touch, but if you were my DM, I'd certainly buy your argument as well.

I've only rarely seen the Chill Touch spell used. Necromancy is a common school to give up due to specialization, and the Chill Touch spell it'self it relatively weak. The only time I've ever seen it used (and used with my interpretation above, which is how every group I've been in so far has interpreted it) to any real effect was in conjunction with an Arcane Trickster (I was the PC there), who used it in conjunction with flanking sneak attacks. Which was semi-good. But even then it was ... subpar. There are just so many better things a caster CAN be doing.

And it was a real pain to get rid of all the extra touch attacks that I hadn't used. Now, if I'd been playing an evil PC I'm sure it would have been easier.

In the end, I found that I memorized and never cast the spell. Because while it's theoretically a good thing to be able to make several touch attacks, it's a very weak spell overall. And even with my several sneak attack dice as an arcane trickster it wasn't worth my time. And we never really ran down in resources low enough to make that first level spell worth my time (ray of frost and acid splash were cast more often and were more useful than that spell!)

 

[Quickbeam]

Option two, plus if the caster casts another spell before he uses up all the charges, he loses the remaining charges.

Yep. That about covers it.

 

[ken-ichi]

Option 2 as Firelance said with the addition that you could touch up to 8 willing targets as a full round action.
Though finding 8 willing targets of this spell might be a bit hard to do.

To those who say it is not a touch spell that can hold the charge, what makes you say that?
The only difference between Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp is that Chill Touch has more than one charge. They are both touch range, instantaneous spells that charge your hand. Chill Touch just allows you to use the charge more than one time, thus the caster can make subsequent attacks with standard or full attack actions to deliver touch attacks.

 

[Dimwhit]

I've never seen the Chill Touch spell until now, but my reading of it makes me think it has similar mechanics as Magic Fang. Only instead of lasting 1 hour/level, it lasts for one attack/level (or one hit/level).

 

[ARandomGod]

I've never seen the Chill Touch spell until now, but my reading of it makes me think it has similar mechanics as Magic Fang. Only instead of lasting 1 hour/level, it lasts for one attack/level (or one hit/level).

A very well put version of my interpretation of the spell...

Also the thought that seems to be a debate (between this version and the "holding the charge" school of thought) on this thread here:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2623594#post2623594

which is why I was a little puzzled that the difference wasn't included in this poll, as option two seems to hold both schools of thought with no differentiation.

 

[helium3]

Yea... I know the rules regarding touch spells and holding the charge. I just don't think that this is a spell that uses those rules. It's not a touch spell that holds a charge at all.

It's an instant enchant spell, that enchants your hands so that the next X touches (where X is the caster level) has the spell effect.

Normally you have to make a touch attack, simply because people will normally avoid your glowing hands when you approach them in a certain menacing way. However it's very plain (to me) that there is no further concentration needed to "maintain" the spell. It's not a touch spell that has a charge to be held, it's an instant spell which enchants your hands.

So sure, THOSE type of spells would need concentration. By definition, by RAW. But the rules as written pretty clearly (to me) clearly don't have this spell as one of those spells. It's in a different class altogether, alibeit one that closely resembles that class.

Edit: To reiterate. This is not a touch spell that uses holding the charge. You simply CANNOT hold this charge, no matter how hard you try. It does not use that mechanic. Instead your next X touches WILL have the effect listed in the spell. There is no other option. ALthough a Break Enchantment, Wish, Limited Wish, or Miracle could probably alter this. And an antimagic shell would certainly supress the effect. Dispel magic and even Greater Dispell magic wouldn't work.

Oh my. You just solved my problem. It's concordant with RAW and the spell description makes sense. You just made me happy.