Chill Touch

[Camarath]

I am not arguing that the RAW does not support you, BTW. I think your rules citations are right on. I am just speculating as to why people don't play it that way.

Thats cool, I can certainly see why people might not want to have Chill Touch work in their games as I have suggested it works.

 

[Murrdox]

Why does this rule not apply?

"Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."

Because it doesn't make sense.

Why would Chill Touch specify that a Wizard gets 1 touch per level, when not even the most POWERFUL of wizards would possibly be able to use all of the touches? A level 20 wizard gets 20 touches, but could only possibly dream of perhaps using 5 or 6 of them at most in a round.

Since applying the rule as you quote it to Chill Touch results in an illogical result, it is safe to assume that the rule should not be applied to Chill Touch.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Since applying the rule as you quote it to Chill Touch results in an illogical result, it is safe to assume that the rule should not be applied to Chill Touch.

Agreed. But the reason for pointing out the illogical result is so that we can create a better houserule for the spell. For instance, if you instead assume that the spell cannot be dispelled, can't be dismissed and that you can cast other spells while having chill touch active, and think that's the way it's supposed to work, then there's a problem. Instead, it's better to sit down with the DM (or the players if you're the DM) and decide how to rule chill touch. Personally, I'd make it have a duration of 1 round/level and function like any other touch spell (it is lost if you cast another spell). Regardless of what you choose, however, making the choice knowing what other's expectations will be is very important.

 

[Camarath]

Since applying the rule as you quote it to Chill Touch results in an illogical result, it is safe to assume that the rule should not be applied to Chill Touch.

Not at all, the result is quite logical. The spell allows you to make one touch attack per level when you cast it, just as Telekinesis allows one to make one attack per level with projected weapons.

Why would Chill Touch specify that a Wizard gets 1 touch per level, when not even the most POWERFUL of wizards would possibly be able to use all of the touches?

The spell allows the caster to make all of the touch attacks as part of its effect just as all other spells that provide multiple attacks allow.

A level 20 wizard gets 20 touches, but could only possibly dream of perhaps using 5 or 6 of them at most in a round.

Why would the caster be limited with Chill Touch and not with Telekinesis? What rule enforces this limit only with touch attacks?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Why does this rule not apply?

"Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."

Because that rule applies to spells like teleport and water walk, not chill touch.

"Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell." PHB, p.175 (emphasis added).

Chill touch allows a caster above 1st level to touch multiple (non-willing) targets by virtue of the fact that it grants him more than one touch attack, but it does not allow that caster to do so as part of the casting. That would violate all of the known rules for touch attacks.

 

[Camarath]

Because that rule applies to spells like teleport and water walk, not chill touch.

"Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell." PHB, p.175 (emphasis added).

On page 176 this rule (the one I quoted) is reproduced without refering to willing targets. I do not think you can exclude Chill Touch because it does not require willing targets since the rule on page 176 makes no mention on willing targets. The target lines of Teleport and Water Walk both specify multiple targets just as Chill Touch does. Water Walk does not even state the targets need to be willing. I think Chill Touch is very close mechanicly to both Teleport and Water Walk in that it is a multi-target touch spell. Which is all that the rule on page 176 requires.

Chill touch allows a caster above 1st level to touch multiple (non-willing) targets by virtue of the fact that it grants him more than one touch attack, but it does not allow that caster to do so as part of the casting. That would violate all of the known rules for touch attacks.

Please quote the rules that limits the number of attacks a caster can gain as the result of casting a spell. Do not quote the Full Attack rule unless you wish to assert that that limitation applies to all attacks granted by spells. And do not quote the Hold the Charge rule since I think that the rule on page 176 clealry state that you can not Hold the Charge with Chill Touch. I do not believe there is such a rule.

Spells grant you the number of attacks stated in their text. This is not limited by the Full Attack limitation since it is an explicit effect of the spell. You are limited in your attacks when Holding the Charge but I do not think those rules apply and even if you could use the rules I see no requirement to do so. No rule says that you can not discharge the effects of a spell in the same round you cast it, the rules only state what you may do if you don't do so.