Chiming in on the D&D minis (merged with "anyone buying the new Mini's?")

[Wormwood]

Just bought my first couple of boxes, and I think the quality is exceptional for the price.
The paint jobs are superior to what I could do (considering that I have neither the time nor inclination to paint minis).

Plus, I lucked out and got the *perfect* figures for all of the PC's in my group. They loved them.

I really, really dig these things.

 

[Azlan]

Feh. To me, this smacks of Dickensian commercialism and runaway consumerism.

In the starter boxes: 16 randomized miniatures (1 rare, 5 uncommon, and 10 common). What's this... ?! The same kind of marketing gimmick that WotC used with that money raking game, Magic: the Gathering... ?! And with the emphasis in 3.5 D&D geared so heavily on the use of miniatures... ?!



So, does that mean buyers are going to end up owning dozens and dozens of miniatures that they don't want, while still clamoring for the ones that they don't have? Will DMs be inclined to start designing their adventures around the miniatures that they've been lucky (or spendthrift) enough to acquire? ("Gee, I'd really like to put a manticore in this adventure, but I don't yet have one of those. Maybe I'll go buy a couple more expansion packs, and this time I'll get lucky. Or maybe I can find one for sale for $7-10 on e-bay.")



Hmm... I wonder what kind of cost-efficient labor WotC has, doing the mass-production paint jobs on these miniatures? Let me guess: the same kind of foreign "sweatshop" labor that Nike uses to mass-produce its shoes.

Sorry, guys. I *love* role-playing games, including D&D. But I absolutely *hate* the reality that is behind this line of miniatures from WotC.

IMHO, MtG was one of the most innovative, elegant, and enjoyable games ever created, but WotC's steely-hearted greed and the glut of cards and expansions they put out for MtG ruined it for all time, for most everyone. Nowadays, I can't find anyone to play it; not so much because players got burnt out on it, but because they were persuaded and inundated into spending so much money on it, only to have the game become a bloated, overly-complicated, unbalanced mess.

 

[thalmin]

Remember, the D&D figs aren't the only figures available. If you need a manticore and aren't lucky enough to find one, and can't trade for one, then you can still fall back on Harlequin or Reaper, exactly where you were before the plastics came out. (I think the Reaper manticore is $7.99)

 

[MerricB]

Hmm... I wonder what kind of cost-efficient labor did WotC get to do the mass-production paint jobs on these miniatures? Let me guess: the same kind of foreign "sweatshop" labor that Nike uses to mass-produce its shoes.

You guess wrong.

Rob Heinsoo said: "As I understand the production process, our Chinese vendor was chosen partially on the basis that they could certify that their factories were child-labor free and otherwise responsible, something that the competitors couldn't fully manage.

"We've been very very lucky to have signed on with the vendor we did. Most every phase of the production process has been a pleasant success instead of the teething disasters that could have occurred. "

IMHO, Magic: The Gathering was one of the most innovative, elegant, and enjoyable games ever created, but WotC's heartless greed and the glut of cards and expansions they put out for MtG ruined it for all time, for most everyone. Nowadays, I can't find anyone to play it; not so much because players got burnt out on it, but because they were persuaded and inundated into spending so much money on it, only to have the game become a bloated, overly-complicated, unbalanced mess.

As opposed to the overly-complicated, unbalanced mess it was when it was first released and with the first few expansion sets? I've played Magic for nine and a half years now, and the rules are much clearer and the sets much more balanced than when it was first released.

So, does that mean we're going to end up owning dozens and dozens of miniatures that we don't want, while still clamoring for the ones that we don't yet have?

Only if you buy the miniatures.

Look, if you don't like the D&D Miniatures and you do want miniatures, then Reaper and all the other existing metal companies STILL EXIST! They haven't been put out of business.

If you don't want miniatures, then why are you trying to persuade of us who do that they are a bad idea?

If you do want miniatures, but want them cheaply and non-random... well, it's a little telling that there is no company who produces them in that manner, isn't it? Economic realities do not permit companies to produce a large range of cheap miniatures in a non-random fashion.

Cheers!

 

[pogre]

I really hope the Miniatures Handbook mass combat rules are (a) good, and (b) don't require 10,000 figures to represent the Helms Deep battle in the Two Towers movie. I detest 1:1 scale for large battles - they're no longer "large".

Not me . I think if a book said both sides require 10,000 minis I would really be intrigued by that scale.

I fully understand your criticism MerricB, but I just was salivating at the thought of a miniatures game that massive!

 

[thalmin]

Not me . I think if a book said both sides require 10,000 minis I would really be intrigued by that scale.

I fully understand your criticism MerricB, but I just was salivating at the thought of a miniatures game that massive!

Only if each is hand painted in a distinctive way, named, with info on next of kin.

 

[Azlan]

Remember, the D&D figs aren't the only figures available. If you need a manticore and aren't lucky enough to find one, and can't trade for one, then you can still fall back on Harlequin or Reaper, exactly where you were before the plastics came out. (I think the Reaper manticore is $7.99)

Well, sure, there are lots of alternatives. (For example, those cardboard counters that Fiery Dragon puts out are most excellent.) But that's beside the point.

Before 3E D&D, I went for years and years without playing with miniatures. When I first started playing 3E D&D, I still didn't use miniatures... but I soon realized the necessity for them. Yes, I realize some of you still play 3E (or 3.5) D&D without them. But IMHO, once you've played the game as it's meant to be played, with miniatures (or at least with cardboard counters), you'll never want to go back to playing the game without them. (Oh, and a re-usable battlemat with a 1" square grid has pretty much become a necessity too.)

So, when I first saw the mass-produced line of plastic miniatures that WotC is producing to coincide with the release of 3.5 D&D, I thought, "Nice. An inexpensive line of miniatures that most everyone can afford to get." But that was before I became aware of the randomness and the "collectability" of the packaging, i.e. the ol' MtG marketing gimmick that has enabled the investors of WotC to become *obscenely* rich.

 

[Azlan]

You guess wrong.

Rob Heinsoo said: "As I understand the production process, our Chinese vendor was chosen partially on the basis that they could certify that their factories were child-labor free and otherwise responsible, something that the competitors couldn't fully manage.

Ha! Nike has gone to great lengths, recently, to pretty much say the same thing.

If you don't want miniatures, then why are you trying to persuade of us who do that they are a bad idea?

The miniatures line itself is *good* idea; it's the random packaging of them (and the marketing that is behind that) that is, IMHO, a bad idea. (But, of course, what's "good" and "bad" here is subjective.)

 

[MerricB]

Not me . I think if a book said both sides require 10,000 minis I would really be intrigued by that scale.

I fully understand your criticism MerricB, but I just was salivating at the thought of a miniatures game that massive!

I just don't want to spend $10,000 on the miniatures. I don't have that much money!

It's the scale Warhammer works on, incidentally, which is why its Mass Combats don't really seem that "mass" to me.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Ha! Nike has gone to great lengths, recently, to pretty much say the same thing.

And we should trust you more? Damn well produce some PROOF for your allegations.