China Mieville on Tolkien and Epic/High Fantasy

[Dimwhit]

I'll just go on record as saying that I disagree that there isn't a difference between sci-fi and fantasy. While, certainly, it's not hard to find works that defy easy classification between the two, there are certainly recognizable conventions unique to each, as well as fans of one but not the other.

There are absolutely differences. But the question is: are they fundamentally different genres? I don't think they're fundamentally different. They have too much in common. However, like you said, there are also enough differences that it's not difficult to discern between the two.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I'll just go on record as saying that I disagree that there isn't a difference between sci-fi and fantasy. While, certainly, it's not hard to find works that defy easy classification between the two, there are certainly recognizable conventions unique to each, as well as fans of one but not the other.

I tend to agree that there are polarized extremes for each that definitely fall into one or the other category. However, in the modern day there is definitely alot of stories that defy categorization and could just as easily fit in either genre. I have even read some stories that are classified as fantasy, but seem like horror. A recent story in Realms of Fantasy was some strange post-apocalyptic, world destroyed by magic, demons seduced mortal thing. Made me think of a Lovecraft horror story rather than a fantasy story.

 

[Pielorinho]

There's also a lot of room in the middle of the spectrum for wildly dissimilar works. Perdido Street Station has probably got more in common with punk science fiction than with fantasy, despite having magic in it. Dragonflight has much more in common with fantasy, despite having no magic in it at all. And where do we put Lords of Light, or Fred Saberhagan's post-apocalyptic worlds?

Daniel

 

[Desdichado]

A continuum is exactly what I percieve too.

I have to wonder, though -- why is it that fantasy and sci fi are wanted to be lumped together? Lots of stories (of both genres) share more with action/adventure or horror or some other genre entirely than they do with each other, yet nobody talks of the continuum between sci fi and action/adventure, or horror and fantasy.

 

[barsoomcore]

I have to wonder, though -- why is it that fantasy and sci fi are wanted to be lumped together? Lots of stories (of both genres) share more with action/adventure or horror or some other genre entirely than they do with each other, yet nobody talks of the continuum between sci fi and action/adventure, or horror and fantasy.

Created worlds. Or, more importantly, worlds with place names we don't recognize.

Seriously, it's all about unfamiliar place names. You can write the exact same story twice, set once in Detroit and once in Lankhmar, and the one will be an action/adventure and the other will be fantasy. Set it in a place called something like Betegeuse IV and it will be called science fiction.

I can't think of any other reliable genre indicator, but then I find genre taxonomy an incredibly tedious sort of semantic debate (like semantic debates aren't tedious enough).

 

[Desdichado]

I, on the other hand, am fascinated by taxonomy, both biological and otherwise!

I think the problem, though, is that people tend to want to neatly compartmentalize things, and with a lot of literature, that just ain't gonna happen unless you're a never-ending genre splitter.

But that's really my point -- sci fi and fantasy exist as genres that are relatively recognizable. Despite the fact that a lot of stuff defies easy categorization into one of the two genres doesn't invalidate the utility of having the genres named and their conventions relatively well understood.