D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[DND_Reborn]

The issue is

1 and 2 stop being a problem after level 8 or so.

5e casters (except warlock and sorcerer) have way too many spell slots and prepared spells for that kind of design.

Just experience differ then. IME those issues are still issue up to level 20, with Wish being the one exceptional "catch-all" spell.

 

[Maxperson]

So pure niche protection?

Why shouldn't fighters have a few options outside of combat? Is that the entirety of the fighter's identity and that's it?

Because IF that's true - no work is needed. Fighters perform "in combat" just fine, quite well even.

I like the idea of superiority dice being usable for physical things in some way. I may try to create some sort of house rules along those lines.

 

[Scribe]

The problem is that 5e tries REALLY hard to make sure all classes have a good role in combat. Mostly because they recognize it's a huge part of the game. So sure the fighter excels in combat but so do all classes, in their own way.

But there are two other pillars. Shouldn't fighters have some role to play in those pillars (outside of just the basic skill stuff everyone can do), just like EVERY other class has a role in combat?

Not to me. I'm not saying they should be the worst in everything, or that the only class that should have 'Explore' is Ranger, but no, I dont need every class to be equally as good, at every pillar, and its actually to me, a terrible design for a party based game.

5 second example.

Combat (Melee)
Fighter: S
Paladin: A
Rogue: A
..
..
Wizards: F

Combat (Caster)
Wizard: S
Sorcerer: S
Warlock: A
..
..
Fighter: F

Skills
Rogue: S
Bard: A
..
..
Fighter: F

Explore
Ranger: S
Fighter: A
Rogue: A
..
Paladin: C

Social
Bard: S
Rogue: A
..
..
Fighter: C

 

[Mort]

The Gloomstalker ability is magical. From the Sage Advice.

"But our game makes a distinction between two types of magic:
• the background magic that is part of the D&D multiverse’s physics and the physiology of many D&D creatures
• the concentrated magical energy that is contained in a magic item or channeled to create a spell or other focused magical effect

In D&D, the first type of magic is part of nature. It is no more dispellable than the wind. A monster like a dragon exists because of that magic-enhanced nature. The second type of magic is what the rules are concerned about."

Determining whether a game feature is magical is straightforward. Ask yourself these questions about the feature:
• Is it a magic item?
• Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell
that’s mentioned in its description?
• Is it a spell attack?
• Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
• Does its description say it’s magical?"

So despite not saying it's magical, it does mention the spell effect invisible, which makes it magic.

Ok, not that I'm 100% sold on sage advice at this point.

But, to me it doesn't matter that much. The world is magical, the martial can make use of that inherent magic without being/using magic.

 

[HammerMan]

There is no rule that encumbrance affect jump distance.

right I wa ssuggesting that if I got the rules I wanted with better jumps maybe it would be a comprmise. I wasn't suggesting it already was there.

Why would it matter? Someone long jumping 60 feet without the aid of magic wouldn't sit right with me. It's a preference and one I'm tired of arguing about.

feel free to stop any time. the first time you did you proved my point that giving a mid to high level fighter something equal to the first level spell hit snags....

 

[DND_Reborn]

The problem is that 5e tries REALLY hard to make sure all classes have a good role in combat. Mostly because they recognize it's a huge part of the game. So sure the fighter excels in combat but so do all classes, in their own way.

But there are two other pillars. Shouldn't fighters have some role to play in those pillars (outside of just the basic skill stuff everyone can do), just like EVERY other class has a role in combat?

Or is the solution to stop making every other class just as good in combat???

That is a route I think should be explored. Rogues can be great IF they can sneak attack you, but in 5E getting a SA in is way too easy. Smites should be before the attack roll, not after. Stop the pew pew of cantrip spamming in combat. Let casters excel in the special way magic can allow them to do on a limited basis, let martials (Fighters, Barbarians especially, and to a degree Monks, Rangers, Paladins, and Rogues) be the best (or better at least) in combat. THAT is what they are built for in many ways...

 

[DND_Reborn]

I like the idea of superiority dice being usable for physical things in some way. I may try to create some sort of house rules along those lines.

If you want it to be generic, just use HD (we do) to allow PCs to add bonuses to ability checks when they really need it. Just a suggestion.

 

[Maxperson]

Ok, not that I'm 100% sold on sage advice at this point.

But, to me it doesn't matter that much. The world is magical, the martial can make use of that inherent magic without being/using magic.

It's going to be magical, either way. It's just a matter of whether it's magical(background magic stuff) or Magical(on that list of questions). At no point is the ability to hop a mountain or slice a boulder in half from 30 feet away going to be martial(mundane), even if it doesn't fall under the list of questions that makes it Magic(with capital M).

Essentially, the martial PC gets so skilled that he transcends the mundane and enters the supernatural.

 

[Maxperson]

If you want it to be generic, just use HD (we do) to allow PCs to add bonuses to ability checks when they really need it. Just a suggestion.

All PCs or just the martial ones?

 

[Mort]

Or is the solution to stop making every other class just as good in combat???

That is a route I think should be explored. Rogues can be great IF they can sneak attack you, but in 5E getting a SA in is way too easy. Smites should be before the attack roll, not after. Stop the pew pew of cantrip spamming in combat. Let casters excel in the special way magic can allow them to do on a limited basis, let martials (Fighters, Barbarians especially, and to a degree Monks, Rangers, Paladins, and Rogues) be the best (or better at least) in combat. THAT is what they are built for in many ways...

Interesting, but the problem is combat if just too big a part of most games/campaigns.

I'm generally for bringing classes up not pushing classes down.