Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

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Let's just look at my last one, then:

Rotating shift work has been used throughout the world basically since the Industrial Age.

It has been proven to be detrimental to productivity AND long-term worker's health by hundreds of studies done over the past 50 years. At this point, the questions researchers are asking aren't whether or not it is harmful, but in what way and to what degree. Findings show costs that not only are to the detriment of the companies- loss of productivity, increased error rates, higher frequency of dangerous workplace errors, etc.- which lead to higher product prices, but also externalized costs to society as a whole that get reflected in higher health care and liability insurance costs for everyone.

As a whole, it is pretty settled science which some CEOs willfully, egotistically (and perhaps cynically) choose to ignore.
 

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Let's just look at my last one, then:

Rotating shift work has been used throughout the world basically since the Industrial Age.

It has been proven to be detrimental to productivity AND long-term worker's health by hundreds of studies done over the past 50 years. At this point, the questions researchers are asking aren't whether or not it is harmful, but in what way and to what degree. Findings show costs that not only are to the detriment of the companies- loss of productivity, increased error rates, higher frequency of dangerous workplace errors, etc.- which lead to higher product prices, but also externalized costs to society as a whole that get reflected in higher health care and liability insurance costs for everyone.

As a whole, it is pretty settled science which some CEOs willfully, egotistically (and perhaps cynically) choose to ignore.

Yes, that one is a broader than the others, but still doesn't come close to the scope of the number of companies that avoid interviewing people over resume errors. You're still trying to compare what some CEOs do to what the vast majority of executives and managers do. It still doesn't come close to being a good match.

Despite being around for decades and being far more pervasive than rotating shifts, not one study has been done that shows the business people to be wrong. I'm also not aware of even one innovator that has come forth to say that as a general rule, sloppiness on the resume equating to sloppiness at work is wrong. Things that are wrong get all kinds of champions in this overly PC society. People are looking for reasons to be upset and offended these days, so if these managers and executives were truly wrong, you'd think at least one person or group would have come forth to rail against it.
 

Yes, that one is a broader than the others, but still doesn't come close to the scope of the number of companies that avoid interviewing people over resume errors.

All analogies are flawed.

But my example is as close as it needs to be: it is a real-world example of CEOs ignoring settled, scientifically researched info because they think they know better, to the detriment of their companies bottom line, their workers well being, and society as a whole.

Not only that, it is a bigger deal- we're talking about dollars and lives lost, not job interviews- so of course it will have been studied. The typo/grammar issue is- as yet- a subtler issue.
Despite being around for decades and being far more pervasive than rotating shifts, not one study has been done that shows the business people to be wrong.

Nor has any proven them correct. As things stand, it is just a bald assertion/widely held belief that it is so.

Just because a problem hasn't been formally studied, it does not follow that the issue hasn't been raised in court cases or settlements. If the cases are sealed- as you said you would have demanded- we have no real way of knowing how the courts, arbitrators and mediators have treated such claims if they have been raised.

...but we covered all that pages ago.

As for people willing to rail against the practice we've been discussing...well:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...to-get-hired/good-applicants-with-bad-grammar

More peripherally:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-...-bug-people-robert-cormack?forceNoSplash=true

And in fields where precision really matters:
http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2011/05/possibly-well-written.html?m=1

What happens when the BUSINESS screws up?
http://www.askamanager.org/2010/09/should-you-point-out-typo-when-applying.html

A writer's perspective on grammar policing:
http://www.makealivingwriting.com/4-reasons-grammar-police-make-terrible-writers/

When policing becomes a problem:
http://www.askamanager.org/2014/07/my-coworker-keeps-emailing-higher-ups-about-typos.html
 
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All analogies are flawed.

But my example is as close as it needs to be: it is a real-world example of CEOs ignoring settled, scientifically researched info because they think they know better, to the detriment of their companies bottom line, their workers well being, and society as a whole.

I disagree that it's as close as it needs to be. Saying that because some CEOs ignore research to the detriment of their companies is almost the same the vast majority of management of the world ignoring sloppy resumes not to the detriment of their companies, is like saying that some people breaking a law is like the vast majority of everyone else not breaking that law.

It's apples and oranges. There is absolutely nothing to show that what managers do with resumes is detrimental to the company. Given how long it has been happening and how many have done it, it's almost unthinkable that if it was truly detrimental, someone wouldn't have figured it out and said something.

Not only that, it is a bigger deal- we're talking about dollars and lives lost, not job interviews- so of course it will have been studied. The typo/grammar issue is- as yet- a subtler issue.

It's a far better known issue, though. Someone would have figured out if it was bad and said something about it by now if it was.

Nor has any proven them correct. As things stand, it is just a bald assertion/widely held belief that it is so.[/quote[

Widely held beliefs are almost always based in fact. They don't get to be that widely held if they are wrong.


They and you are still engaging in fallacious arguing. Trying to equate job requirements with what reviewers are doing is a False Equivalence. Nobody is saying that good grammar and spelling is a requirement for all jobs. What reviewers are looking at is job performance in general, not how specifically grammar and spelling will be used on that job. Until people get that, they are doomed to be arguing nonsense in an attempt to change the minds of others on the topic. Nonsense won't accomplish that.
 

Nobody is saying that number 1 is true. I've said more than once that there are exceptions to the general rule. Number 2 is just plain wrong. There's tons of evidence. It just hasn't been put into a study doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. That tens of thousands of businesses worldwide all have observed that effect and as a result toss sloppy resumes is itself evidence.

Well, you've certainly implied you think #1 is true, because you keep referring only to 'sloppy resumes', and point to a source noting many executives reject resumes with 1-2 typos as your supporting evidence that others do it too. Perhaps not your intention, but it does make it seem like you associate 1-2 typos with 'sloppy'.

At the risk of seeing too many trees for the forest, when I think of a sloppy resume, I'm picturing one with sections missing, little-to-no supporting/clarifying details (job duties, education topics, etc.), irrelevant text, and even (as I have seen) bits of text that are obviously from a fill-in-the-blanks resume writer with the blanks and instructions left in. I can definitely see something like that going in the circular file, because it's just a headache trying to even figure out if the needed qualifications are present.

As for there being "tons of evidence" for number 2 being wrong, I'd submit there isn't. There's tons of evidence business reject sloppy resumes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's because they think the worker would have sloppy work habits; it could just as easily be that they were rejected because the business couldn't find any references to all the job qualifications (as you say, there is a limited time they can spend on each resume; they don't have time to interpret "creative" ones).

There's also the (growing?) fact that especially in larger organizations, a dedicated HR unit handles initial resume winnowing, and they may not have the technical understanding of a job position to make safe assumptions, so they can only work off a checklist, and a sloppy resume is less likely to have the proper keywords in the right places (anecdotally, a co-worker of mine got screened out of a competition because he didn't explicitly say that he worked on WindowsXP every day - despite the fact that he was a software developer with our organization for the previous three years and all we used was WindowsXP). This sort of scenario makes no inference on the quality of the applicant or their work habits.

In fact, given the disturbingly litigious world that is employment (ie, the same one where many places won't even give more of a reference than "Yes, Person worked here from Date to Date"), the far more likely reason they pitch sloppy resumes is the one that doesn't risk casting aspersions on the applicant (ie, it's far safer to say "We couldn't find the stuff we wanted on your resume" than "You'd be a pretty sloppy employee").

I don't. Mistakes on resumes are a general indicator of sloppiness. I'm not putting personal reasons over the business interests at all. I am in fact doing the opposite.

OK, but earlier...

That doesn't show racial bias. It shows name bias. I dislike names like Shaniqua and other similar names and would not call back resumes with names like that. I also dislike Hawaiian sounding names which are often given to white people, or Russian names which belong overwhelmingly to white people. Give me names like Robin, Rhonda, George, James and so on, but put on those resumes the race of the individual and you will find no racial bias at all.

Emphasis mine.

That decidedly sounds like personal reasons being put over business reasons.

Mayhaps the greater world is more imaginative than me, but I cannot think of a single, non-silly reason a person's name would ever be a relevant business consideration (silly reasons including, but not exclusive too, Dewey and Cheatum finding the partner with the perfect lastname for their law practice).

No. I scrutinized all of the resumes that I've looked over, regardless of name. Sloppiness is not name based ;)

I'll have to take your word for that.

My conclusion came about because we first started talking about names, and how you wouldn't call certain ones back (without mentioning whether they were qualified or not), and when told about potential legal action against you, you defended yourself by bringing up the idea of sloppy resumes and how you'd probably find enough mistakes on them to justify winnowing them out.

It just seems odd to even consider a person's name at all. If there are problems with a resume, that's enough justification right there. If there aren't problems, how does a name cause a problem?

Her evidence would be very weak. She has no way to know if I had much stronger resumes the first time around, but not the second time around. She has no way to know if I had fewer positions available than qualified resumes. There are more reasons than just name for what she experienced to be true.

I would submit that she would have enough evidence for a prima facie case, which would mean it'd be enough to go to trial, at which point, it'd be on you to prove you had stronger resumes before, or fewer positions, or what have you.

Note, I am not a lawyer. I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. This is, in fact, the first time I've ever typed 'prima facie', and I'm quite certain I'm making some gross misconceptions about the American legal system. But I like reading [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION]'s posts about law ;)
 

I think some BBcode quoting got messed up in this post of yours Maxperson, so if you in fact did not type the following, I apologize.

That caveat out of the way...

Widely held beliefs are almost always based in fact. They don't get to be that widely held if they are wrong.

Flat Earth.

Homosexuals are pedophiles.

Faked Moon landing.

Obama isn't American.

Frankly, there are a lot of widely held beliefs that have no factual basis at all.

Edit: Yes, I'm exaggerating how widely held some of those are, but the point remains... 'cause, well, religious myths.
 
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Flat Earth.

Not nearly as wide spread as people think.

Homosexuals are pedophiles.

Not even remotely close to being wide spread.

Faked Moon landing.

You're losing ground rapidly.

Obama isn't American

Also not not something like the resume situation.

Frankly, there are a lot of widely held beliefs that have no factual basis at all.

And yet you failed to show even 1 that wasn't a minority belief. The vast majority of managers engage in the resume practice.

Edit: Yes, I'm exaggerating how widely held some of those are, but the point remains... 'cause, well, religious myths.

Myths about the Greek, Roman, Egyptian and so on gods were also not as wide spread. The major religions that are wide spread can't be shown to be myths. You believe them or not, but that's about it.
 


Not even remotely close to being wide spread.

Well, last year, the President of the Family Research Council maintained there was a connection between being gay and being a pedophile.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/29/tony-perkins-value-voters-summit_n_5900448.html

The FRC is a "charity" with revenues of around $13 million, and 2000 people attended the Value Voters summit this year.

Hard data is a bit hard to come by - a survey in 1999 suggested that 19% of heterosexual men believed that "most gay men are likely to molest or abuse children". This is far reduced from the 1970s, but even if it had dropped by half since then, that's still pretty widespread. We might say that the number of heterosexual men who think gay men are pedophiles is roughly comparable to the number of gay men.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/poq_2002_pre.pdf
 

Not nearly as wide spread as people think.



Not even remotely close to being wide spread.



You're losing ground rapidly.



Also not not something like the resume situation.



And yet you failed to show even 1 that wasn't a minority belief. The vast majority of managers engage in the resume practice.

Seriously? I was obviously exaggerating to make a point.

Edit: Since you seem to have skipped over my epic post, I'll tl;dr for you:

It's granted that many businesses trash sloppy resumes. There's no evidence it's because they think the employee will have sloppy work habits. It's far more likely they have no will to bother deciphering it all.

All my above post said it better ;)



Myths about the Greek, Roman, Egyptian and so on gods were also not as wide spread. The major religions that are wide spread can't be shown to be myths. You believe them or not, but that's about it.

Sorry, I was trying to couch that in terms less likely to be inflammatory (kind of tying thing back to the original topic in this thread). I wasn't referring to classical history there; I was talking about the beliefs in current widespread religions - Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

They are all rife with beliefs with no basis in fact. Even the ones that are comforting and unthreatening. And they are very widespread. Even the wrong ones.

It kind of goes hand-in-hand with the definition of 'belief'. If you have facts, it's not a belief. It's knowledge.
 
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