Christians and DnD

[Mercule]

This is also the approach taken by the very religious Tolkien with regards to Middle Earth, but JRRT would not have counted as a Christian to Schnoebelen. I certainly don't mind being in this boat myself.

Quite. It should be noted (if I've got my facts straight), that Tolkien and CS Lewis were quite good friends. In fact, I believe it was JRRT who was responsible for "Christianizing" Lewis.

And, of course, Lewis went on to write "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrode", which is both an excellent work of fantasy fiction and an overt (almost heavy-handed) allegory to Christ. Lewis also wrote "Mere Christianity", which is used by many different denominations as a source (and really should move up on my to-read list, since I have not done so already).

 

[Dogbrain]

Um, Thanee, Tyr HAS a real world following, albeit a small one - He is a real Norse god.

He does? I know that Freyja is still popular among the old-line Asatruar of Iceland (who at least can make some claim of a continuing and living tradition), or are you just talking about revivalists?

 

[Maerdwyn]

I would consider it to be tremendously problematic to play in Christian world as I can get five-six people to agree on a common moral basis, gamewise (for short periods of time, at any rate) while trying DM Christian morality when each player has a different idea of what that means in practice would be a nightmare, not to mention legitimate concerns about trivializing religion. The times when it looks like it might work are in cases like Green Ronin's Testament or Midieval Player's Handbook when the interpretaion is explicitly established as just part of the game.

I'm just getting a PbP Testament game going here on the boards - We've got a few Christians, an Orthodox Jew, and a couple undeclareds in the group. I think everyone is going in with a good attitude, but I can see that there will be some (innocent) misunderstandings and differences in the way each of us understands each other take on the material. As long as it stays in the out of character thread, should be a lot of fun and very interesting

 

[Dogbrain]

Um, Thanee, Tyr HAS a real world following, albeit a small one - He is a real Norse god.

He does? I know that Freyja is still popular among the old-line Asatruar of Iceland (who at least can make some claim of a continuing and living tradition), or are you just talking about revivalists?

 

[Dogbrain]

Though I have hypothosized that the recent (past century) trend towards the mystical, imaginative, fantastic, and/or magical is a subconsious psycological rebellion against the increased influence of science and rationalism in our daily lives.

You hypothesize in error. Rational though went into decline by at least 1850, if not earlier. Our intellectual culture has been dominated by "mystical" thinkers like Marx, Engels, Hitler, Himmler, Pol Pot, or those who like to mimic their ways. Look at what sells in the marketplace. Is it Kant's Critique? No. Gross and widespread hostility towards rational thought has dominated our world for at least a century. WWI: Caused by mystical ideas like "nationalism". WWII: Caused by mystical ideas like "nationalism" and "racial purity". Cold War: A mystical battle between the "Godly" USA and the "Workers' Paradise" based on Marxist chiliastic mystical determanism. Mysticism is no longer the rebellion, it is the entrenched establishment.

 

[Dogbrain]

I do suffer bouts of aggravation when some folks assume that Chick speaks for me. Something that I am quick to disclaim.

I've stopped bothering to do that. After all, I don't require that everybody with dark skin disclaim Farrakhan.

 

[Dogbrain]

I think what people call 'extremism' is the only real form of belief. Far to many religions try to soften thier message to get more belivers in the modern era.

Hardly. My Church's message hasn't changed in about a thousand years or two. We still get into arguments over whether or not men and women should be permitted to sit on the same side of the center--or whether we should be permitted to sit AT ALL during Liturgy. Matters like doctrine and what is considered sin are as hard-nosed as ever. However, do not mistake ancient doctrine for that newfangled stuff invented a mere century or so ago.

If a holy text says "suffer not a witch/sorcerer to live" then there should be no debate.

And if it doesn't? What if that "text" is a mere English version, and your Greek or Hebrew originals don't say that? After all, you aren't just spouting mouth-farts from ignorance, right? You HAVE actually researched the issue, right?

 

[Uller]

You hypothesize in error. Rational though went into decline by at least 1850, if not earlier. Our intellectual culture has been dominated by "mystical" thinkers like Marx, Engels, Hitler, Himmler, Pol Pot, or those who like to mimic their ways. Look at what sells in the marketplace. Is it Kant's Critique? No. Gross and widespread hostility towards rational thought has dominated our world for at least a century. WWI: Caused by mystical ideas like "nationalism". WWII: Caused by mystical ideas like "nationalism" and "racial purity". Cold War: A mystical battle between the "Godly" USA and the "Workers' Paradise" based on Marxist chiliastic mystical determanism. Mysticism is no longer the rebellion, it is the entrenched establishment.

Ummm....and the has what to do with D&D?

Sounds like a rather broad definition of "mysticism". Religion and political/philosophical thought (and the intersection thereof) are not mysticism.

And the West (not just the USA) didn't stand up against the CCCP because we were godly...we stood up because we saw what happened to the poor bastards in Poland, Czeckloslavakia, Hungray, East Germany et al. The Berlin Wall wasn't built to keep the rift-raft out, after all...

As for this particular thread, I think it is bogus. Asking what a Christian gamer thinks of the likes of Jack Chick is like asking "Do you still beat your wife." I assume it isn't meant in that vain, but to me it comes across as saying: So...you're a Christian? Well how do you reconcile your beliefs with THIS! <shoves Chick propaganda in your face>

I'm a Christian. I know a lot of born-again types (including relatives). I talk about D&D very openly with people and no one has ever expressed any sort of concern. The most derision I've recieved is from people who think it's "geeky"...not satanic. I think when there are threads about this a lot of people are indulging themselves in group-victimhood. Play your game. Who cares what Chick and his ilk think?

Every thing has its detractors. Did you know that when the flashlight was invented some people called it the tool of the devil? And it isn't just religious people that do this. Before automobiles were mass marketed, some reknowned scientists claimed the human body could not withstand the forces involved in traveling at speeds of 35+ mph for sustained periods...people say ridiculous things about that which they don't understand. Hear them out and make your own decisions.

 

[heimdall]

I consider myself a born-again Christian. A few of the friends I developed through D&D were among the most influential in leading my down that path, being Christian themselves. One had such a big impact, in fact, that my wife and I decided to name our second son after him. Without D&D I may have become a Christian, but it would have been far different and probably far more difficult.

As far as Christians and D&D, I sometimes wonder what Jack Chick would think if he ever read the author profile for WotC's Behind the Screen:

Jason Nelson lives in Seattle with his wife (Judy), daughter (Meshia), son (Allen), and dog (Bear). He is a part-time homemaker, part-time medical transcriptionist, part-time Ph.D. candidate in social & cultural foundations of education, and is an active and committed born-again Christian. He began playing D&D in 1981 and currently runs one campaign while playing in two others.

 

[Uller]

As far as Christians and D&D, I sometimes wonder what Jack Chick would think if he ever read the author profile for WotC's Behind the Screen:

Jason Nelson lives in Seattle with his wife (Judy), daughter (Meshia), son (Allen), and dog (Bear). He is a part-time homemaker, part-time medical transcriptionist, part-time Ph.D. candidate in social & cultural foundations of education, and is an active and committed born-again Christian. He began playing D&D in 1981 and currently runs one campaign while playing in two others.

He would call him a "so-proclaimed" Christian. Chick is one of those people that believes if you don't follow his particular brand of Christianity, then you're not the real deal (he believes Catholics are not Christians, for instance). This isn't that abnormal. Lots of people in lots of different religions believe this way. It is a fairly recent phenom for people to take the "we all worship the same God" POV...

Tracy Hickman is a Christian (Mormon), too...

http://www.trhickman.com/Faith.html

And I'm sure Chick would consider him a heathen.