Blog (A5E) Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?

In Level Up: Advanced Fifth Edition, we’re creating new incarnations of the 5e character classes. Before we build our new classes from the ground up, we need… a teardown of the originals to see how they work! Our design goal is to produce characters of approximately the same power level as the ones in the Players Handbook. We’ll need to do some math to figure out the targets we’re shooting...

In Level Up: Advanced Fifth Edition, we’re creating new incarnations of the 5e character classes. Before we build our new classes from the ground up, we need… a teardown of the originals to see how they work!

Our design goal is to produce characters of approximately the same power level as the ones in the Players Handbook. We’ll need to do some math to figure out the targets we’re shooting for. Before we crunch the numbers, though, let's talk about what we mean by power level.

World Power Level

First, let me say that we're quite happy to expand characters’ abilities when it comes to the social and exploration pillars of the game. Some classes need more expansion than others. Currently, the wizard has dozens of exploration spells: scrying, teleportation, Jump, Find Traps, and many more. The bard has the social pillar covered, with Friends, Glibness, charms of all kinds, and the Expertise class feature which allows her to double her proficiency bonus. The rogue has Expertise but can't compete with the bard's spell tricks. A good roleplayer can do a lot with a fighter, but the class features don't do a lot of the heavy lifting.

We aim for each character class, including the non-spellcasters, to gain unique, powerful non-combat mechanical elements that let them do things that no other class can do. Let the spellcasters be jealous for once.



Combat Power Level

When I talk in this article about preserving the game's current power level, what I really mean is that a party of Level Up characters won't overperform or underperform a standard D&D party in combat. That means that you can play any D&D adventure, official or third party, and get the level of combat challenge that its designers intended.

Most of a class's combat statistics are pretty easy to figure out: How many hit points can we expect a fighter to have at level 10? What's a monk's typical Armor Class at level 3? Harder to calculate, but no less important, is this: how much damage can a character dish out at a given level? Without that piece of information, we can't really balance the classes' combat effectiveness.

There are so many variables in calculating damage that completely answering this question may be impossible. But we've got to start somewhere.

Let’s start with some assumptions.

1. I'll benchmark each character of level X against an enemy monster of CR X. Without some sort of class-granted accuracy bonus, each character hits 60% of the time. (Character attack bonus and monster Armor Class tend to increase at roughly the same rate.) If a class feature grants extra accuracy or advantage, that needs to be factored that into their average damage per round. (A mere +1 bonus to hit can result in an 8% damage boost!)

2. I assume that every area attack hits two monsters.

3. I average a character's damage over the first three rounds of combat.

4. For my benchmarks, I built Players Handbook-only characters, and I leaned towards the simplest subclass available. When presented with a class option, I chose the bigger-damage option. For instance, I built a Great Weapon fighter instead of a Protection build. I didn’t use feats, since I’d like this test to focus on class damage, not on feat effectiveness.

Before we start crunching numbers, we have an important decision to make. Which fight shall we simulate: an easy battle in which the party is conserving their resources, or an all-out assault where the wizards are using their highest spell slots, the fighter is using Action Surge, and the paladin is smiting everything that moves?

Why not both? Some classes can go nova, throwing down a lot of damage in a big fight, and some classes do steady damage throughout multiple fights. We need to be able to account for both of these strengths. So for each of the classes I surveyed, I charted their "no-resources" damage (using only infinitely-repeatable attacks they can perform at will) and their "nova" damage (using up every spell slot and class feature in order to maximize the amount of damage that they can deal).

To start, I charted the four "basic" D&D classes: the fighter, wizard, cleric, and rogue, plus two more I was interested in: the paladin, which I've heard is overpowered in combat, and the ranger, about which I've heard the reverse.

Here's my chart, on which I track average damage per round for the six classes for levels one through twenty. The solid lines represent maximum nova damage, and the dotted lines represent at-will damage. The rogue only has one damage line, because it really has no limited nova powers.

classchart1.png

The first thing that jumps out at me is that most of the classes fall into one of two categories: high-nova/low-at will, or medium-nova/medium-at-will. The evoker wizard and life cleric can really lay down a lot of damage in a boss fight, but when they're not burning spell slots they plink away with low-damage cantrips. Meanwhile, the champion fighter is right down the strike zone on every pitch. It's always producing around the same amount of damage.

Overall, I like the design of these classes. If it was me, I'd differentiate cleric a bit more by having it do more at-will damage and less nova damage than the wizard, but that's just a minor quibble.

The next thing I notice is that people are right about the paladin and ranger. The nova paladin puts out almost twice as much damage as the nova ranger (and my ranger is trying hard, using bonus action spells every turn and Conjure Volley when it becomes available). And the paladin doesn't give up much to the ranger in any other category to make up for all that extra damage. The paladin's at-will damage is only a hair under the ranger's. The paladin has better armor, the same hit points and better healing abilities.

I know I'm cherry-picking a bit here since I've chosen classes I know to be badly balanced against each other, and I'm compounding this by sticking to the Players Handbook ranger when I know there are higher-damage options in Xanathar's Guide. Nevertheless, it's good to get a sense of what the combat-effectiveness extremes look like.

The last class I want to talk about here is the thief rogue. Since it doesn't have any nova capabilities, you can judge it as either an at-will or a nova attacker. As an at-will user, it's among the better ones, keeping pace with the champion fighter. But judged as a nova class, it's by far the worst. It gets left in the dust by the nova champion fighter. In fact, it gains a big edge over only one nova class—the ranger—and only at levels so high that they are seldom played.

It's worth noting that so far I've only graphed one subclass for each of the classes I've examined, and subclass can make a big difference. To illustrate that, here's the battlemaster fighter graphed onto the same chart.

classchart2.png

The battlemaster is a much better nova subclass than the champion! It almost challenges the paladin for the melee damage-per-round crown. If we accept the fighter as the "right down the middle" class who always produces medium damage, this widens the strike zone a great deal.

So now that we've squinted at some charts, what conclusions can we draw for our character class redesigns?

Lesson 1: Character damage increases linearly with level.

It's a bumpy ride along the way, especially at the first level of each tier (5, 11, and 17), but on the whole, the classes I've graphed do somewhere around 5 + level damage when not using any resources, and somewhere around 5 + (3.5 x level) when they're going all out.

More work is needed here. These patterns need to be borne out with an examination of the rest of the classes and subclasses, more sets of different assumptions (what if character level doesn't equal opponent CR? What if area attacks hit 4 enemies?), and, of course, double checking the math.

Lesson 2: We should try to stay true to the AGGREGATE average damage numbers instead of maintaining each class's current Damage Per Round.

I don't think there's anything sacred about the paladin being the best nova melee class and the backstabbing rogue underperforming everybody. I'd be happy to adjust the damage outputs of the specific classes to better match peoples' story expectations.

D&D doesn't need to be perfectly balanced - it's not a pvp game - but there shouldn't be classes that are much stronger or weaker in combat. Most peoples’ D&D games feature a fair amount of combat, and everyone deserves to have fun during that chunk of their week.

Lesson 3: Damage isn’t dealt in a spreadsheet.

This isn’t something I learned from this graphing exercise, but it’s a reminder not to take it too seriously. The circumstances of every battle are different. And that’s vital to remember when we’re designing class combat features. Depending on the location and the opponents, each class should have a chance to shine.

Wizards should excel against big groups of weak foes clustered within fireball range. Clerics should wreck undead. Rogues should deal the most damage when attacking from ambush. As for the rest of the classes… that’s where you come in.

For the people who have stuck with me through this long post, I have some questions for you. I'd love it if you posted your answers in the comments.
  • For each character class (or for a few classes that you have opinions about), what are the combat circumstances in which you'd expect them to excel?

  • Am I overthinking this? Does combat damage matter to you?

Continue reading...
 

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Paul Hughes

Paul Hughes

Sunsword

Adventurer
I think when it comes to area-effect damage you should include more than 2 targets. Experienced spellcasters carefully choose where their spell drops. I think 4 targets would be a better number.
 

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I love seeing things like this, and I’m not even the target audience for Level Up. It occurred to me that one thing missing is to take account of the difference between short rest based classes and long rest based classes when looking at nova damage. Perhaps running each class through a standard adventuring day of 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters would provide an idea of the expected DPR that takes that into account.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I love seeing things like this, and I’m not even the target audience for Level Up. It occurred to me that one thing missing is to take account of the difference between short rest based classes and long rest based classes when looking at nova damage. Perhaps running each class through a standard adventuring day of 2 short rests and 6-8 encounters would provide an idea of the expected DPR that takes that into account.
The problem there is at least in core. Short rest classes work like this:nova or close to it> "tank is on E, take a short rest guys." It turns into this perverse inversion of intent because they tend to cast the same spells as long rest characters.
They've said that they designed 5e with the assumption that you'd be going into every fight with full hp & short rest classes come close to adding spell slots/wildshape/ki points/etc
edit:
1599694933084.png
 
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Anarchclown

Explorer
Rogues actually get hurt more by the fact that their items for combat suck. Not only is their armor never going to get very high. The effects of a magic weapon is so much less significant than for those that have more than one attack. Just both the fighter and the rogue having a +1 weapon each actually widens the gap by one. If they both get a flame tongue, you can pretty much forget about it. So if the party is only trying to optimize, the rogue is the last one to get access to magical weapons. My personal solution was to make a blade of the scoundrel for one of my campaigns, that instead of adding damage per strike changes sneak attack dice to D8's but in the game proper there is no such thing.

Footnote: When adding feats the Battle Master with Crossbow Mastery and Sharpshooter feats equipped with a hand crossbow is very difficult to beat when it comes to damage. The build is basically done at level 5, 1d6+13, 5 times in one turn (with action surge) is pretty hard to beat and should you miss because of the -3 (-5 but +2 for achery) you can always use Precision Attack to add a superiority dice to the dice roll. Don't forget to take menacing attack so the enemy can't get closer either. Things do not get any more balanced with level when you get more to hit, higher ability scores and more attacks.

If someone can cast Bless that is also helpful of course. :)
 

Matthan

Explorer
I used Spiritual Weapon (no concentration) and Spirit Guardians ASAP, often with higher-level spell slots. I'll grab numbers and add them to this reply in a minute.

Edit: OK, so let's take a look at life cleric at level 11, where it does higher damage than the evoker.

Round one: As a bonus action, cast Spiritual Weapon (not a concentration spell) at level 5: 13.5 (3d8) each turn for 3 turns, for 40 damage overall. Then cast Spirit Guardians at level 4 (concentration), 18 (4d8) damage for 3 turns against 2 targets. 108 damage - or 72, if you assume that the cleric's concentration gets ended one turn early.

Round two: Lv 6 Flame strike hitting 2 targets for 63 (18d6) or half on a failed save.

Round 3: Lv 4 Inflict Wounds for 33 (6d10) damage.

Reduce that all for misses chances and saving throws, divide by 3 over 3 rounds, and it's still a lot.

The cleric competing so well with the evoker wizard may actually be a function of me underestimating the wizard, who mostly slings fireballs.

I may be missing something. Cleric can't cast two leveled spells on the first round, can he? You would need to pick Spiritual Weapon or Spirit Guardians.
 


Tormyr

Adventurer
I see no reason for clerics to be enemies of undead. As said above, they should turn what is antithetical to their god. Genericizing is one reason DnD is less fantastic than it could be
I like the concept, but maybe that makes them too much like the paladin?
 

NotAYakk

Legend
I'm going to do a sanity check on your level 20 rogue (thief).

So we hit 60% of the time and have two short swords.

The first hits for 1d6+5, the second for 1d6.

We use sneak attack on the first one that hits.

This gives sneak attack a 91% accuracy and a 7% crit rate (miss first swing, crit on second).

0.91 * 35 = 31.85
0.07 * 35 = 2.45

We get 1.2 sword hits (4.2), 0.1 sword crits (0.35), and 0.6 DEX bonus (3) damage)

Total 41.85 damage per round.

Over 3 rounds you get 4 (thief feature), so 55.8 damage per round.

---

For the Paladin, over 3 rounds you get 3.6 hits and 0.3 crits.

We use a great weapon for 2d6R12 or 8.33 dice damage per swing, +4.5 from imp divine smite, +9 from holy weapon (either cast it round 1, or have it up before hand; you have little use for bonus action in this combo). You can even recast it if it goes down (2 5th level slots).

21.83 damage dice per swing. Times 3.9 is 85.15 over 3 rounds.

+5 static damage for 18 damage.

Before combat (hour long buff) you have holy weapon up (+9 damage per hit/crit). On turn 3 you make it burst for 4d8 aoe (21.6) for a bonus action.

You have a griffon companion (find greater steed). Your accuracy is +11; it has +6, so it hits 35% of the time. 11.5 dice damage times 3 rounds times 0.4 is 13.8, plus 8 * 3 * .35 is 22.2 from the griffon. (either use it as an intelligent independent mount, or dismount and have it attack as an allied creature).

We have enough slots to drop 5d8 smites on every hit; so 22.5 * 3.9 is 87.75 smite damage. (If you do run short of 4th/5th slots, a 3rd slot only costs you a tiny bit of damage).

Total is: 87.75 + 22.2 + 21.6 + 18 + 85.15 = 234.7, divided by 3 is 78.2 damage per round.

You seem to be underselling the Paladin.

This uses 0 subclass features.

---

For the BM, you'd want to choose mostly precision and riposte to spend dice on.

Those are highly efficient ways to spend dice, and you burn them pretty quickly that way.

6d12.

Your basic hit is 13.333 damage.

Your basic swing is worth 13.333 * .6 + 8.33*.05 = 8.4163.

A die spent on a miss by 1 is worth 13.33 damage.
By 2 is worth 12.2
By 3 is worth 11.1
By 4 is worth 10
By 5 is worth 8.9
By 6 is worth 7.8
By 7 is worth 6.7
By 8 is worth 5.6

A riposte is worth 12.7 but you probably don't get enough of them.

A die spent after a hit is worth 6.5, after a crit is worth 13.

So you burn dice on (a) crits, (b) ripostes, then (c) on near miss attacks.

You get 5 actions, each with 4 attacks, so you get 20 attacks. You can expect 1 crit.

We'll give you 3 misses from monsters.

That leaves 2 dice for precision. At 20 attacks, you'll get an average of 1 that misses by 1, and 1 that misses by 2.

So 13.3 + 12.2 + 13 + 12.7*3 = 76.6 damage from your 6 BM dice.

On top of that 20 swings at 8.4163 = 168.326 from just attacking
= 244.926, or 81.6 DPR

(BM dice get more complex because you can run short or have extra; note, however, that we can save them for misses by 1 or 2, crits, and when an enemy misses us, and get 11-13 expected damage per die. That is a lot of opportunities... If we expand to using it on misses by 3 or 4 we get a plethora, and nearly the same damage output.)
 
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