D&D 5E Class Mechanics Idea: The Warlord

It's not that you're wrong here, but wouldn't these options be better if these abilities were available to all groups using an advanced tactical module, regardless if one of the players is playing a Warlord?

Now, perhaps it might work like the fighter and combat maneuvers. A module is going to let everyone do it, but the fighter does it best.
Maybe, but then, one could argue: "Wouldn't it be better if everyone can cast spells?" That's kinda the Earthdawn approach - pretty much every class there uses magic in some form. Just because you're a Fighter or a Craftsmen doesn't mean you're mundane - everyone casts spells that augment his own abilities. There may still be room for an "spellcasting exclusive" class like the Wizard.

This reminds me that I never got around to check the D&D 4E based version of Earthdawn...
 

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ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
It's not that you're wrong here, but wouldn't these options be better if these abilities were available to all groups using an advanced tactical module, regardless if one of the players is playing a Warlord?

Now, perhaps it might work like the fighter and combat maneuvers. A module is going to let everyone do it, but the fighter does it best.

When you're looking at the individual Drills and Tactics I've included here, none of them let you do anything narratively that a martial character can't already do (carefully weave past enemies, fight defensively near your allies, etc.). It just provides extra bonuses or more streamlined ways to do them - much like fighter maneuvers.

Some of the ideas here could be adapted to work as feats, but I think there's enough (when combined with the healing focus) to serve as the core of a class.
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
The Commander Spec and Tactician Spec on my homebrew RPG works like the OP's idea. Oddly the Willpower Charisma based Commander had encounter based Inspirations and the Intelligence based Tacticians had group stances called Tactics like the 3.5 Marshal. My friend says using them turn you into a Zenith Exalt.



Inspirations:
Inspiring Words- A weak heal.
Incite Riot- Makes every into raging barbarians
Command respect- Forces the target to listen to you
Heartstring Pull- Makes the target sad
Face me!- Prevents an enemy from fleeing... well
No Bugglegum- Paralyzes enemy for a short time
You have my sword- Makes friend cowards fight, removes fear
Shake it off- Removes mental issues
Wartime Lie- Makes lies using stressful times believable.
Your mmoma so fat- Makes enemy unable to do complicated actions due to anger.
Gruesome kill- Makes your kills scare enemies
No Sell- Delay damage
BS Confidence- Inspire ally with false or exaggerated praise

Tactic
Run away- Boosts run speed of allies
Lead the Arrows- Boost archery bonuses of allies
Stomping party- Double flanking bonuses
Do it Again- Grants extra action

Thanks for the ideas!

Looking through them, Do It Again could work as a Drill (warlord gives up his next action to grant an extra one to an ally), as could the rest of your Tactics.

I'd call Stomping Party "Swarm Tactics": When three or more of your allies are adjacent to the same enemy, they all gain combat advantage against that enemy.

I'll think on the others...
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
If you have any Exalted books, you could use some of the less ridiculous Presence, Performance, and War Charms for idea.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
There are some really fun ideas in this thread, and I'm taken with the connection with the Bard as a support character.

Both classes use Charisma as a primary stat. Both have spell-like effects that are conceptually best seen as non-magical (or semi-?). I wonder if there's a way to reinforce this. I can't think of an umbrella term that would embrace both classes clearly, but one could use the Rogue (Thief/Thug) as a parallel of how both could be incorporated under the same mechanics.


Bard (Charisma, Int secondary)
* light armour
* musical abilities, incl. healing effects and inspiration.
* knowledge abilities (like the rogue sill bonus [however that eventually shakes out] for all Lore skills)

Warlord (Charisma, Str secondary)
* medium armor
* commanding presence, incl. healing effects and inspiration.
* tactical abilities

Just thinking like this makes me like the Warlord more than have before.
 



Paraxis

Explorer
I imagine a 5E warlord would look like the 3.5 marshal from the miniatures handbook with maybe some ideas from the 3.5 dragonshaman from players handbook 2.

They had aura type effects that provided buffs, including h.p recovery in some form.
 

So you disagree? Fair enough -- but the thread makes a compelling case otherwise.
The flavor of a Warlord and a Bard seem very different. The Bard is singing or playing music and casting spells, the Warlord is giving orders and advice. Both are supporting the party, but it feels different to me...
 

cmbarona

First Post
Quick show of hands: Who has both played a Warlord (or been in a group with one) across the 4e level tiers and also thinks they can be incorporated into a specialty rather than a whole class?

I ask because I have a sneaking suspicion that the number of people who answer yes to both of those questions is less than the number of people who have not played one (or played with one) and think it can be incorporated into a specialty.

I think people are oversimplifying the complexity that a Warlord provides. They do more than offer extra attacks and non-magical healing. They buff allies' offense and defense, help them shake off conditions, and move them around. And they can do so in a variety of situations and combinations of single allies or the whole party. And they could do some combination of these from level one. I think the 4e class concept, when considered from levels 1-30 and spread out on the table, is too complex to contain in a single 5e specialty.

This is not to say that I think there should not be a Leader specialty. Like Magic User or Acolyte, it could be the sort of thing that would reinforce a Warlord, but allow anyone else to dabble a little.
 
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the Jester

Legend
I think "leader" should be a choice that any class can take (especially Fighters, who literally become warlords in classic D&D).

I agree, but Leader should be to specialties what "acolyte" or "magic-user" are- a way to dabble in a class like 4e multiclassing if you only spend one or two feats on it.

I want to bring it back a peg. So conceptually a warlord is a support class like the bard. It actually does a lot of things like a bard. Should the bard and the warlord exist together s separate and distinct?

Yes. If they aren't distinct enough as of yet, they should be made so.

Part of the reason for this is because, if 5e wants to get 4e players to give it a fair chance, it has to be inclusive of 4e concepts and material, and warlords are a PH1 core class. Leaving the warlord out, or consigning it to being just a specialty, would be a huge mistake IMHO.

Similarly, I'm pretty sure that renaming the warlord would be perceived as (another) slap in the face by some die-hard 4e fans. There's no need, and there's no gain compared to the loss of some fans from the edition.
 

cmbarona

First Post
Similarly, I'm pretty sure that renaming the warlord would be perceived as (another) slap in the face by some die-hard 4e fans. There's no need, and there's no gain compared to the loss of some fans from the edition.

I don't get the naming problems either. The concept is someone who leads well, and leads from the battlefield. This includes a barbarian warchief (like Ghengis Khan), a king leading the charge of his army (like Israel's David), and everything in between. From gangs to national armies. Rogue is a concept that encompasses many types of characters. Why can't Warlord be the same?
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
A couple changes occurred to me. Rather than having the Tactics be (almost) completely passive and just picking two or more to stack for each combat, it might be more dynamic if they worked like auras: you still pick two or more per encounter, but you can only have one active at a time. When you want to switch tactics, you have to call it out like a quarterback calling out a new play (or more to the point, like a sergeant ordering his company in combat).

I also was originally thinking of making Tactics work like wizard spells, where you can learn them as you adventure (from books and scrolls of tactics and strategies, or in person from other warlords). I was a bit afraid of having warlords with practically unlimited options at their disposal, but since they're already limited as to how many they can prepare for a specific combat, I don't think it's a terrible thing to reward scouting and advance intel that much more.

Should I edit the OP or rewrite it in a new post?
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
The way you are describing Tactics here reminds me of the way the 3.0 Marshal worked -- not quite the same but something to look at for ideas, perhaps.
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
OK, here's the edited version:

Warlord
Warlords are masters of tactical combat. They are formidable martial combatants in their own right, but their true power comes from their ability to forge a group of adventurers into a true fighting force.
Key Abilities: Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence. Strength and Dexterity determine the warlord's AC and proficiency with weapon attacks, while Intelligence dictates the warlord's starting and maximum number of Tactics known.

Creating a Warlord
When you create a character whose first class is warlord, you gain these benefits.
Ability Adjustment: +1 to your Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence score
Starting Hit Points: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Armor and Shield Proficiencies: All
Weapon Proficiencies: All

Code:
Lvl  Hit Dice  Atk  Morale  Tactics  Class Features
1    1d8       +2   2/day   2/rest    Drills, Combat Tactics
2    2d8       +2   2/day   2/rest
3    3d8       +2   3/day   2/rest    New drill
4    4d8       +2   3/day   3/rest
5    5d8       +3   4/day   3/rest

Class Features
A warlord gains the following class features.
Hit Dice: 1d8 per warlord level
Hit Points: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per warlord level gained.

Level 1: Drills
The warlord has drilled tirelessly in a number of maneuvers that aid his allies in combat and help fuse them into a deadly fighting force. These drills can be repeated as often as desired. Unless noted otherwise, drills are actions.
At first level, the warlord knows Triage and two other drills; he learns an additional drill of his choice every third level (3, 6, 9).

Level 1: Combat Tactics
The warlord has studied numerous clever tactics designed to enhance the effectiveness of his unit in combat. These tactics must be carefully plotted out and discussed with the party before the fighting starts. This means that however many tactics the warlord knows, he must choose only two of them to prepare for each combat. This increases to 3 at 4th level and 4 at 8th. When he has a short rest, he can use the downtime to plot out new maneuvers for the next combat with his party. Any member of the party not present and conscious for the short rest will not be able to participate in or receive benefits from the warlord's tactics in the following battle.

The party can use one tactic at a time; the warlord can declare a starting tactic during the time when he is plotting tactics, and can change tactics once per round on his turn. (This is not an action.) He can switch between the tactics he has prepared as many times as he deems appropriate.

In his detailed knowledge of the ways of combat, the warlord recognizes that morale is often the key to victory. An "inspiration" is a type of tactic typically used out of combat, which generally takes some time to perform but does not need to be prepared in advance. These inspirations cost "Morale." Morale represents the limit of the warlord's ability to inspire confidence and teamwork in his unit, and can only be recharged with a long rest. A warlord has 2 Morale Points per day at first level, increasing by 1 at each odd level (3 at 3rd, 4 at 5th, etc).

Every warlord knows the Inspiration Dig Deep and at least 1 other tactic of his choice. If his Int modifier is positive, he adds it to the number of tactics he knows at first level. The warlord automatically learns a new tactic every level. He may also learn additional tactics from books of strategy, scrolls, or directly from other warlords and prominent tacticians; the value of these tactics is widely recognized, however, and the warlord can expect to pay a hefty price in gold or in favors if he wants to learn a new tactic. It takes at least 24 total hours of study, drilling, and practice to master a new tactic in all its intricacies.

The total number of tactics a warlord can effectively keep track of is equal to his Intelligence score.

List of Drills
Triage
His vast experience on the battlefield allows the warlord to apply poultices and salves with military efficiency. When you use this ability on an adjacent ally, he may spend one of his Hit Dice to recharge hit points as if you were using a Healer's Kit outside of combat. At third level, he may spend up to 2 HD this way, increasing by an additional HD every 3 levels.

Distracting Strike
You make a melee or ranged attack against an enemy; if you hit, you deal half damage, but the enemy receives Disadvantage on their next attack before the beginning of your next turn.

Aid Ally
You grant an adjacent ally advantage on one roll of their choice before the beginning of your next turn.

Clever Blow
You can make a melee or ranged attack adding your Intelligence modifier to the attack roll in place of Strength or Dexterity. (Damage modifiers are unchanged.)

Snap Decision
Once per round, you may change the party's tactic as a reaction even when it is not your turn.

List of Tactics
Dig Deep (Inspiration)
You inspire an ally to channel reserved they didn't even know they had, granting them one extra Hit Die. This Hit Die disappears if it isn't spent by the time the warlord takes a long rest. You may target two allies at 3rd level and an additional ally every 3 levels after that; however, you can't inspire yourself with this ability.

Forced March (Inspiration)
Your military discipline encourages your party to move more efficiently, covering long overland distances twice as quickly as normal.

Group Presence (Inspiration)
With your guidance and careful rehearsal, the party acts in careful accord even in social situations. All members of your party gain advantage on Diplomacy, Intimidate, Barter, Bluff, and Insight checks for the next 10 minutes.

Duck and Weave
Your allies may move through enemy squares. In addition, instead of getting advantage on attacks of opportunity against your party, enemies receive disadvantage.

Nova Strike
As an action, the warlord may designate a single target to his allies; all allies deal +1d6 damage against that target. (This damage increases to +2d6 at level 5 and +3d6 at level 8.) The warlord may not designate another target until the first is down or has surrendered.

Back to Back
Enemies receive disadvantage on attacks against a party member who is adjacent to at least one other party member.

Phalanx
Allies adjacent to the warlord (or adjacent to an ally who is) receive advantage on all saving throws and deal +1d6 damage on melee attacks. (Damage increases to +2d6 at 3rd level, +3d6 at 6th, and +4d6 at 9th.)

Stay Focused
The party receives advantage on all Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma-based saving throws as long as the warlord is conscious and within 50 feet.

Rush To Strike
The party receives a 10ft bonus to their movement speed.

Blood Harvest
Whenever a member of the party lands a killing blow on an enemy, they receive 1d4 temporary hit points. (THP are the first hit points lost when the character takes damage, but they disappear after five minutes if they are not lost.) This increases to 2d4 at 4th level and 3d4 at 8th level.

Hold Your Ground
Any ally who does not move from their position during their turn receives advantage on their first attack roll that turn.

Fire in the Hole
Through careful drilling that allows spellcasters and their teammates to work in close symphony, your spellcasters have learned how to avoid friendly fire. Allies can choose to exclude targets that fall within the effect of any area spells or effects they cast.

On My Target
Whenever the warlord makes a melee or ranged attack, he can grant one ally the opportunity to also make a ranged or melee attack against the same target as a reaction.
 
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Vikingkingq

First Post
I really like the edited Warlord; now to figure out how to balance my "Cosmopolitan Ex-Pat Mercenary Knight" between Fighter levels and Warlord levels...
 

Vikingkingq

First Post
So you disagree? Fair enough -- but the thread makes a compelling case otherwise.

I meant in the sense of the Warlord being a Leader type that focuses on expertise in military tactics (and the Fighter being an inward-focused military tactician), whereas the Bard is more magic-oriented, albeit music-magic (and outward-directed compared to the Wizard's more individualistic approach).
 

cmbarona

First Post
The Morale paragraph seems crammed in there. It should really be listed as a separate class feature. Inspirations don't seem to fit into the Tactics mold as you've presented. Can you explain the benefit or reasoning behind combining the two?

Also, I'll second the Charisma suggestion. Morale should be powered by Charisma, and Tactics by Intelligence.
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
The Morale paragraph seems crammed in there. It should really be listed as a separate class feature. Inspirations don't seem to fit into the Tactics mold as you've presented. Can you explain the benefit or reasoning behind combining the two?

My thinking was that some people might prefer to have more tactical options and fewer inspirations, and others vice versa, so the divide made sense by allowing you to pick between a tactic or an inspiration whenever you level up.

Also, I'll second the Charisma suggestion. Morale should be powered by Charisma, and Tactics by Intelligence.

The Dex is an option for warlord who want to use ranged or finesse weapons. I had Charisma there first time I wrote it up but was afraid of MAD - with Str and Int you already have more "important" abilities than a wizard or rogue.
 

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