D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[mamba]

But I’d probably lower those thresholds. Maybe like 75% as the requirement for publication, below 51% as the “toss it out” bar, and 51-74 as the “worth iterating on” range.

something like that, esp since I believe that people are rating ‘do I like this better or not’ and not in absolutes, independently of whatever currently is in 5e

 

[Maxperson]

Wild shape templates: gone.
Warlock half-casting: gone.
Bard's picking a spell list: probably gone.
Paladin smite spell: probably gone.
Short rests: still necessary.

This isn't even 5.1. this is Tasha 2.0.

Was that announced by WotC?

 

[Charlaquin]

Was that announced by WotC?

No, @Remathilis is just being pessimistic.

 

[Maxperson]

No, @Remathilis is just being pessimistic.

Hmm. I had some hope for a moment. Hopefully the see the light and that spell goes the way of the Dodo.

 

[Remathilis]

Hmm. I had some hope for a moment. Hopefully the see the light and that spell goes the way of the Dodo.

Don't worry, between the fact the pact magic is back and better than ever and the very good chance that smite won't be a paladin only spell, I'm sure Hexadins will be able to dump 5th level spell slots twice per short rest at level 11 to max out smite damage again.

 

[Maxperson]

Don't worry, between the fact the pact magic is back and better than ever and the very good chance that smite won't be a paladin only spell, I'm sure Hexadins will be able to dump 5th level spell slots twice per short rest at level 11 to max out smite damage again.

All they need to do is limit it to once per round. There's zero need for it to be a spell.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Well, good news and bad news. Bad news: the MM is going to look pretty much the same, but bigger.

The same as what? Because the big question is MM1 style and unchanged or MMotM style?

I'm okay with this; I think the real issue isn't with the monsters, it's with the lack of guidance on running monsters, as you point out. Which brings us to the good news: the DMG is basically getting a ground-up redesign, from what we've been told. The shredding part is up to you.

Nah. The monsters are outright bad largely thanks to the structure of 5e. They've all the speed of 4e monsters and less in the way of basic tactical engagement than AD&D monsters. All they are lacking is the fiddliness of 3.X monsters. Fundamentally four issues cripple the tactical element and thus the actual engagement during combat of 5e as compared to 3.X or 4e:

• Finesse weapons using Dex to hit and damage means that an archer with a shortsword or rapier (and no feats or magic weapons) does almost exactly the same damage in melee as at range. There's no point maneuvering to run something like a bandit down and force them into melee other than the increased focus fire.
• Thrown weapons using Str to hit and damage means that there's not much point entangling or kiting a monster like an ogre other than for focus fire; their javelins do almost as much damage as their clubs and are just as accurate. So kiting them mostly opens up their target selection.
• The penalty for being in melee being Disadvantage rather than opportunity attacks means that if you get a mage in melee they can still throw around fireballs or lightning bolts with impunity
• The lack of default flanking again means that focus fire is just about the only thing, and no one is baited into going deep into enemy lines for Advantage.

AD&D didn't have this, of course, but on the other hand combat was much much faster and less bloated; in 1e an ogre had 19hp, in 3.X 29, and in 5e 59.

Does this mean that all 5e monsters are bad? No. They've inherited 4e's ability format so a goblin with Nimble Escape moves and behaves differently from an orc with Aggressive, and the legendary monsters with lair actions can be pretty good. But their "starting quality" is the lowest of any edition due to some design choices that work fine for PCs not being so good for NPCs. This means it takes more work to make a good monster and that the quality of monsters in the MM is lower.

 

[mellored]

All they need to do is limit it to once per round. There's zero need for it to be a spell.

It is simpler to have one system than 2.

 

[tetrasodium]

It is simpler to have one system than 2.

But it would be one system. Rogue & barbarian already have something similar. Change it from a spell to a once per turn or always on when attacking thing with appropriate numbers & half caster paladins suddenly get to use their spell slots for cool things that work with the group instead of hoarding them for smites. Paladin even had something similar in the test packet with their level 11 radiant strikes ability

 

[mellored]

But it would be one system. Rogue & barbarian already have something similar.

Paladins already have spells.
Rogues and Barbarians do not.

paladins suddenly get to use their spell slots for cool things that work with the group instead of hoarding them for smites.

You mean like like using thunderous smite to push enemies into a firewall?
Or shining smite to give allies advantage?
Or blinding smite to protect your allies from a beholder?

Stuff people will now use instead of hoarding all their slots for damage.