D&D (2024) Class spell lists and pact magic are back!

[Maxperson]

52 minutes is the only correct short rest length and I will not hear otherwise.

Psh! Everyone knows that 42 is the answer.

 

[Maxperson]

Very Satisfied -> 80 - 90% satisfaction
Satisfied -> 70 to 80% Satisfaction
Dissatisfied -> 60 to 70% Satisfaction
Very Dissatisfied -> Under 60%

Does this help you understand it? Do you see how thousands upon thousands of results can be compiled into something that is more complex than having three possible answers? You keep demanding I explain it but then refuse to admit it can be anything other than broken.

How on earth is dissatisfied = satisfied going to help anyone understand? Dissatisfied = less than 50% or less, because if you are more than that, you are at least somewhat satisfied with how things turned out. And I love how "very dissatisfied" or "I hate it" = a 60% approval.

 

[Maxperson]

"Sheer idiocy." Nice. D&D has always recharged magic daily, or on a long rest, in some way. Sure, it has evolved over time, and other recharge mechanics have existed in the past. But it has always been a part of D&D. You want something different. Make it different for your game.

He's right, though. 5e changed things up by creating the adventuring day. Sure 1e-3e had "long rests" refresh magic, but a single encounter could and did challenge the group because those editions were balanced differently than 5e.

The changes 5e wrought to game balance created the situation where insisting that it has to be a recharge every 24 hours is nonsense. Having 5-8 encounters during a 24 hour period culminating in a long rest is functionally identical to having 5-8 encounters over a 7 day period culminating in a long rest.

If you don't like it, complain to WotC about the change in balance, not to those of us who recognize what the changes mean to the traditional rest period.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The issue isn't the length of the short rest, it's the number of short rests available for every long rest. Having the short rest be an hour strongly pushes the result to 2-4 short rests per adventuring day. If you have two short rests, that means the short rest classes can expend their power suite three times for each time the long rest class expends their suite. This seems roughly equivalent to me.

If a short rest was 5 minutes, you could easily have 12+ short rests during the day and negating the long rest classes. That's the reason why they were set to an hour each.

Do I have proof of this? A statement from a designer? No. But it seems obvious when analyze the rules. (I thought I did from an interview proximal to 5e's release, but I can't find that anymore.)

I mean both are the issue.

The solution is trivial and it's insane that WotC haven't even referenced it given how often it's come up since literally 2014, which is to put a cap on the number of short rests per long rest, and then reduce the short rest time to a sane value.

I'd personally suggest maybe three short rests per long rest but I could also see fine arguments for two or four. Drop the time required to 10 or 15 minutes and suddenly the game is more balanced, more naturalistic (taking a bunch of random 1hr breaks is so weird and un-adventurer-y), and frankly more fun.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

How on earth is dissatisfied = satisfied going to help anyone understand? Dissatisfied = less than 50% or less, because if you are more than that, you are at least somewhat satisfied with how things turned out. And I love how "very dissatisfied" or "I hate it" = a 60% approval.

Yeah the idea that 60% approval is "very dissatisfied" absolutely bizarre. Clearly most people are satisfied at that point.

 

[TwoSix]

I'm just saying, even with all exceptions aside, there is precedent for getting tired, resting overnight, then being ready again.

So it can suffice for some people as the "gain their powers back mechanic", for a game system, and work just fine.

Of course, but there's also plenty of precedent for that NOT being the case.

So the question then becomes which standard of recharge is best practice for the game, not which recharge period is the most realistic. It's easy to fit a narrative around any particular period of time.

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm confused. Isn't there already a short rest caster? The Warlock gets his slots back on short rests.

Yes, I was arguing for why going back to pact magic was a good move.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Of course situations vary, but aren't we normally ready for a fresh day of work after a long (nights') sleep?

People get long night's sleep still?

Our soul-crushing society kind of proves that people don't need 8 hours of rest to be functional enough to continue suffering.

 

[tetrasodium]

People get long night's sleep still?

Our soul-crushing society kind of proves that people don't need 8 hours of rest to be functional enough to continue suffering.

Long rest doesn't even need 8hrs of sleep

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

When the first defense of something is 'tradition', I find it safe to label that thing expendable.

Trust that I am not a fan of tradition for tradition's sake. I just like Long Rest recharges where I as a player get to choose how and when I spend my resources. If I want to alpha strike and be less powerful in the day, great. If I want to take my time and react with big stuff only when I feel the need, great.

I do also think that there are certain things that make D&D "D&D". D&D Spellcasting is for D&D, not a generic universal role-playing system. I have no interest in spell points, Encounter-only recharges, or extreme variants to replace the D&D spellcasting system.

It's like saying... Star Wars is cool, but let's get rid of the Force because it is stupid. It's not Star Wars if you get rid of the Force.