Classes and Levels or Point buy

[Psion]

Have you seen Red Leaf Games D(Liberation)20 System?

I have. I think it is not so good. Even for point buy.

 

[Umbran]

Which do you prefer, a system with classes and levels? Or a freeform system where you buy skills and abilities with xp?

Depends upon the game, for me. Some work best one way, some the other.

 

[MerricB]

Which do you prefer, a system with classes and levels? Or a freeform system where you buy skills and abilities with xp?

I prefer the freeform system. With a system like that, you can have a master carpenter or blacksmith who doesn't also have to have gobs of hp and good saves. You can also choose to round out your character with social skills or focus only on one small area.

You can have a system in D&D where you have a master carpenter or blacksmith who doesn't have gobs of hp and good saves.

Seriously, all you need is a class as follows:

BAB: +0 (all levels)
Saves: +0 (all levels)
Skill Points: 4+Int modifier per level (4+Int * 4 at first level)
HP: 1d4 at first level, no additional HD at later levels

Cheers!

 

[MadMaxim]

You can have a system in D&D where you have a master carpenter or blacksmith who doesn't have gobs of hp and good saves.

Seriously, all you need is a class as follows:

BAB: +0 (all levels)
Saves: +0 (all levels)
Skill Points: 4+Int modifier per level (4+Int * 4 at first level)
HP: 1d4 at first level, no additional HD at later levels

I believe that's called commoner levels, MerricB

 

[JoeGKushner]

Free form is better but at the same time, far more time consuming. People who don't like crunch for example, would hate Hero and GURPS. Mutants & Masterminds and the Tri-Stat system do a good job of offering options without drowning the reader in rules however and for simplicities sake and filling old roles, level based games like D&D are still great.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Class and levels.


I detest point buy games. To me, they seem very roleplay elitist. They require far too much knowledge to use well and they are a nightmare to GM. I have never seen a character concept that could not be modeled with a class and level system.

The "problem" with class and levels though, is that they are generally an all or nothing deal. For example, Elric can summon gods and powerful demons but can't cast a fireball. A high level fighter is going to be good with every weapon, and probably have some specific skill with a few select ones, but at the same time, he's going to basically be immune to poison or any other effect that has a Fortitude save as a resistance roll. In other games, you don't advance all at once like that and may even have weaknessess or vulenrabilites.

 

[interwyrm]

But if you start putting restrictions like that on, aren't you losing the vaunted 'total flexibility' that point buy? In which case, what is the point?

In case you can't guess, I voted classes and levels.


glass.

Um... Point buy is better! (Neener Neener)

Seriously though... the restrictions are to preserve balance and a sense of realism, not unrealistically limit the character. Look at D&D... they keep coming out with new classes and new prestige classes, to try to make extra flexibility, but still maintain some sense of balance and realism. In the freeform system where you are required to keep your 'weapon swingy' skill and your 'weapon stabby' skill close, it keeps a specialist from abusing the system entirely, and it represents the fact that in real life, when people learn a lot about a certain subject, they tend to pick up tidbits about similar subjects.

 

[MonsterMash]

I don't have a preference...it really depends on the game. D&D just needs Class and Levels. Its PART of D&D.

But other games don't need it, and work just fine without them.

Agree with both of those statements - D&D to me has classes, levels, Vancian magic, archetypal characters, armour as AC, I can enjoy playing other systems like BRP Runequest, but its a whole different set of things and its just not D&D!

 

[Belen]

The "problem" with class and levels though, is that they are generally an all or nothing deal. For example, Elric can summon gods and powerful demons but can't cast a fireball. A high level fighter is going to be good with every weapon, and probably have some specific skill with a few select ones, but at the same time, he's going to basically be immune to poison or any other effect that has a Fortitude save as a resistance roll. In other games, you don't advance all at once like that and may even have weaknessess or vulenrabilites.

Fighters have a weakness. There have weak noggins and trouble jumping out of the way.

 

[Arnwyn]

Again, poor poll.

I prefer classes and levels for the medieval fantasy genre, and no classes (ie. a skill-based system) for the futuristic/sci-fi genre.

I voted "classes & levels", though, because it seems to mostly concentrate on D&D.

Um, Mutants & Masterminds, using PL?

How does this ruleset work if you don't want to play a superhero game?