Classes and Levels or Point buy

[S'mon]

I like classes & levels for D&D PCs; however they are not particularly suitable for most NPCs, and they don't work well in most non-D&D genres - eg in Traveller 20 the use levels just don't feel right.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I said classes and levels simply because it is there and does not need to be fleshed out. I would like to see a completley point-buy or equivalent system worked out in D20. It may be interesting.

Have you seen Red Leaf Games D(Liberation)20 System?

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Personally I prefer classes and levels. It what I'm used to, if future editions evolve away from it though, I'll have to evolve too.

 

[Bront]

I like both. Classes are nice to give players a structure, but point buy gives you added flexibility. The big problem I have with point buy is that I find that characters tend to get a bit stagnant if they save up for something, or tend to get too broad by taking a bunch of skills at a lower level. Depends on the system I guess, but I've been happier with a somewhat flexable level system more than I have with XP expendature systems.

 

[glass]

I need a little clarification on that... do you mean that you have to keep skills in the bins close to each other? Or do you mean that you can't put a whole lot of points in one bin, without putting some in others? If it's the first, I think that's a great idea, and when I finally get around to designing my rpg system, that will probably go in it.

But if you start putting restrictions like that on, aren't you losing the vaunted 'total flexibility' that point buy? In which case, what is the point?

In case you can't guess, I voted classes and levels.


glass.

 

[glass]

I prefer a system to have levels and point buy, but no classes. However, I don't know of any.

I believe that's true of Savage Worlds.


glass.

 

[glass]

My point is that there are far too many spells in D&D. The spell I was suggesting actually works best with a magic system where you have to roll against a target number to suceed (and maybe expend resources like hp to make up the difference) The idea is that the basic spell seed has a target number, and the different modifications increase that target number.

I think that this system would work well. When you have a classed system with spells in levels 0-9, you can't really do that so well

The Wheel of Time RPG has a scalable spell system with classes, levels and slots. Doesn't model the magic in the actual novels perfectly (although reasonably well IMO), but is still an excellent general purpose magic system.

FWIW, I'd love to see a scalable spell system in D&D. I just don't buy that you need to give up classes and levels to do it.


glass.

 

[glass]

In those two systems, you have levels, and you have professions (i.e. classes). Yet, in both those systems you also have a large amount of freeform development as well. Each profession gains a number of Development Points, and uses those to purchase the skills that they want, thus allowing for better shaping of the character you want.

Any character may learn any skill (and spells are learned just like skills are), but their profession/class determines how easy or hard it is to learn that skill. And levels work as breakpoints, making it easier for a GM to gauge how powerful a character is in relation to others.

You know, apart from the the differences in what exactly constitutes a skill, you could have been describing D&D 3.5 there.


glass.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I said classes and levels simply because it is there and does not need to be fleshed out. I would like to see a completley point-buy or equivalent system worked out in D20. It may be interesting.

Oddly even though it has classes and levels Silver Age Sentinels d20 is nearly a pure point buy d20 game. It would only take a little bit of work to take out classes and add the things they don't do as point buy (BAB and saves mainly) and make them so. It would be my choice if the DM was willing to doa little bit of work.

 

[Belen]

Class and levels.


I detest point buy games. To me, they seem very roleplay elitist. They require far too much knowledge to use well and they are a nightmare to GM. I have never seen a character concept that could not be modeled with a class and level system.