Classless, Levelless, Expless RPG's?

[DWARF]

So these exist out there?

Because I've been thinking about and working on a system where there is not really any experience points, and no classess or levels. Basically, it'd be a system where everything is based off skills. I've enjoyed all skill-based systems like in Asheron's Call. Now, understand that this system probably has some big potential for abuse, but I want to use it for a much more realistic and role-playing campaign.

No, the other problem I've had with RPG's is how levels are far from a realistic system. I was looking at implementing a system where improvements in skills is done by spending time on them, measured in hours. Going from 0 to 1 rank in a skill? That's 5 hours (the new bonus times 5). Go from +1 to +2? 10 hours. Seems like things might get out of hand quickly? Well, once you have a skill rank, you have to maintain it. This will cost the bonus in hours a month. So if you finally train up your Concentration to 20 ranks? You have to spend 20 hours a month in meditation practicing your focus. As well, advanced training will require proper teachers, and you can't spend every waking moment training. Plus, training costs money and if you spend all your time training, you won't be making much cash.

Since there are no classes or levels, hit points, attack bonus, saves, etc. will have to be handled under the skill system. Also, incidentally, I'm planning on using the HP/VP system with Armor granting DR and not adding to the AC, attack rolls are measured against an opposed defense roll (d20 + defense bonus).

Anyways, there are more specifics, but I wanted to throw out the idea and see what people thought about it.

 

[LostSoul]

If you're thinking about a skill-based system, you might want to do away with typical saving throws. They're based on level progression, and making them a skill will throw things out of whack. So you might want to make a magic skill that sets the DC and a set of saving skills that you resist magic with.

If you use active defense, where a character rolls a defense skill to see if they are hit, you won't have to bother with hit points increasing as levels go up. (Hit points are a method of defense, just a passive one.)

Another way of dealing with hit points would be to add a passive defense skill (like AC).

 

[bondetamp]

Original (as in not d20) Call of Cthulhu is levelless, classless and xpless. Everytime you use a skill in a meaningfull way (one that you might learn something from) you put a check mark next to it. Ever so often, the Keeper then tell the players to roll some dice to see if they advance in the so marked skills. The higher the skill, the harder it is to advance. (All skill go from 1-100 and you had to roll above it on a d100 to advance.)

That's the only system I can remember, though I'd imagine that the other BRP games, like Elric! work in much the same way.

 

[Warmaster_Horus]

Well the D6 Star Wars from West End Games was a pretty much classless, levelless system, based totally on attributes and skills. So maybe you can check that out and adept it to your setting.

Also the Warhammer RPG was based on careers and very skill oriented so you might wanna try that too.

 

[zorlag]

Shadowrun

Shadowrun has a skill/attribute based system. It has advancement method called 'Karma', which resembles experience but has more applications than strictly improving charater stats and skills.

Z.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

GURPS has something like this. Essentially, 200 hours spent training on a skill translate into one character point for that skill. Daily usage of that skill as part of a job is half as effective as training.

If you wish, you could skip on giving out experience points entirely if you use this system. Just give out effective "training hours" after an adventure (fighting for you life against a clan of goblins will probably teach you a lot about swordfighting, especially if you survive it...)

 

[Fenes 2]

Shadowrun, as has been mentioned, has no levels, and is skill based. Karma serves as a sort of experience measure, but it is up to the player how to spend it.

We play Shadowrun, but we don't really advance our PCs anymore, we just keep a couple of karma points to spend on critical actions.

 

[Vaxalon]

Big Eyes Small Mouth

I'd just like to throw in my favorite classless system, Big Eyes Small Mouth. I haven't seen another game able to handle powers of various sorts in as balanced a way as they do.

I used it to create my Harry Potter game.

 

[thullgrim]

Reply I have been working on something similiar, but am using a 'defense' skill. Saves could be handled as a skill. 1 skill for each type of save, but rather than +1 for each rank, just come up with a progression like 1 rank =+1, 5 ranks =+2, 10 ranks =+3, and so on. They still have to purchase ranks to improve their saves. Its how I am handling hit points, mana points etc. 1 rank in Physique allows 1 HP roll. The type of die depends on how many points you spend on the rank.

hmmm they turned into more than i wanted...

 

[Frostmarrow]

I've been thinking a lot about this too lately. I came up with active and dormant skills. You can only have so many active skills but there is practically no limit to the number of dormant skills you could acquire. If you want to learn a new skill one of your active skills will become dormant. Of course relearning a dormant skill is quicker than picking up a new skill. A character would also be better at a dormant skill than an unknown skill (but not by much).

This would lead to more organic characters. Characters would develop and grow without becoming gods after a year's worth of adventuring. It's an interesting topic. I think slots are a better way to handle such a system as juggling training hours back and forth is too much of a chore, in my humble opinion.