Classy Way to Ask For An Explanation?

[moritheil]

I've DMed for several years, but the one thing I've never really felt comfortable with is asking a player to explain possible cheating. Luckily, it almost never happens, but eventually (maybe once per year) it does turn up. If it's not a big deal, I try to let it slide, but sometimes I run into a player who, having gotten away with some, decides he or she should try for more.

So, does anyone have tips on how to confront a player over questionable behavior?

 

[Nifft]

"Wow! You hit on a three! That's totally sweet! Could you break your attack bonus down for me?"

That sort of question? Or more like, "Wow, that's sixty rolls in a row, all above 10!"

-- N

 

[moritheil]

Well, in this particular case it's more like "Hmm, I heard an awful lot of dice rolling for that one attack roll." :\

What I'm asking is more like, when you reach the stage where you have a long list of questionable incidents that might be considered evidence, how do you tactfully bring up the fact that this isn't the first time for something like this to happen?

Or do you recommend not letting things slide the first time, and trying to warn the player then? It seems that that approach has the downside of turning one into a very hard-nosed DM and not being conducive to fun, but maybe I'm imagining things.

 

[Nifft]

Are the character sheets posted on-line? If so, make sure all the bonuses are accounted for correctly.

If the sheets are NOT on-line, make them so. It's also useful if a player forgets his character sheet at home one day... or if you have to look at a character sheet for any other reason.

But without more specifics, all I can tell you is that "can you break that down for me?" tends to apply to a lot of things, and it's not particularly accusatory.

Cheers, -- N

 

[robberbaron]

Sounds like the old roll the dice and roll them again if you don't like the result, sometimes known as 'cocked dice'.
It happens sometimes - dice are cocked, one falls on the floor = reroll or call of 'take it!' before trying to find it.

I have one player who used to do a practice roll before the real one. Did it every time, so it wasn't a real problem. The real problem I did have was players rolling all their attacks beforehand. You might think it would speed up combat but it really pissed me off to the point where I told them straight to roll in plain view when it was their turn. We quickly decided after that rolling in secret was disrespectful to the DM. Funny how it took that long for them to figure it out.

The worst thing for me at the moment is when experienced players have to add up their bonuses every time they make a roll. And sometimes it seems that they come up with different numbers. I assume that half the time they are underplaying their power so it balances.

I have asked for a breakdown of bonuses, say, when a player gives out a large parcel of damage without a critical, and have (I think) always been satisfied with the answer.

I wouldn't call my players cheats but sometimes they don't add things up correctly or re-roll an un-cocked die. Sometimes I call them on it but mostly I let it go. Maybe I shouldn't because the other players might start doing it as well but you have to have a measure of trust in your players not to cheat in a cooperative game.

 

[BlackMoria]

If the problem is a questionable and improbable outcome (ie. like a 5th level character hitting AC 35), I ask for a breakdown of all the modifers and what the roll was. No one in my 32 years of playing has ever taken issue with me asking them how they came up with the result in question.

As for multiple dice rolls that occur during a single dice outcome (like an attack roll), I remind people that the table rule is if the dice is cocked, they announced 'cocked dice', show the cocked dice without touching it by removing any obstacles to viewing the dice and then and only then are they allowed to reroll the die. If they grab the die and re-roll without following the procedure, I invalidate the roll outcome and tell them to roll it again. At this point, everyone's attention is on the dice so chances of suberfuge or shennigans with the dice are gone.

 

[Arnwyn]

What I'm asking is more like, when you reach the stage where you have a long list of questionable incidents that might be considered evidence, how do you tactfully bring up the fact that this isn't the first time for something like this to happen?

IME, people don't respond as well to generalities as they do to specific examples. I don't know how said person might respond, so without any additional knowledge all I can suggest is to deal with specific issues when they come up, and start creating consistent 'accepted procedures' for those specific issues (e.g. robberbaron's "roll when it's your turn" procedure - which also happens to be my group's particular policy, too).

Aside: And the "That's awesome! How does that break down?" comment/question is now a time-honored 3e classic.

Or do you recommend not letting things slide the first time, and trying to warn the player then? It seems that that approach has the downside of turning one into a very hard-nosed DM and not being conducive to fun, but maybe I'm imagining things.

That's my recommendation, and has worked for us. We put in 'policies' (it sounds more official than it is) as soon as possible, and as soon as something even looks like it could be a problem. It really works for us, and we simply haven't had any cheating problems, since we remove most of the opportunities right from the get-go. (Note, however, that this won't necessarily work for everyone. I have a business and managerial background, so it's just kind of 'my thing'... it may seem quite different to those who aren't used to such an environment, however.)

 

[SavageRobby]

"Can you break that down for me" is a great way to put it, as mentioned. I've found that usually, the only people that get defensive about that request are people that are cheating. That doesn't happen in our group (heck, they usually forget all of their bonuses, not add new ones) but I recall situations gaming with people I didn't know well in the past. I don't have any patience for that kind of behavior.


Also, in our group the rule is fixed; dice on floor don't count ever, no matter how good or bad. Non-arbitrary rules like that help stave off hard feelings.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

Yeah, I definitely ask for the breakdown. My players when they break it down and realize they have added some figures wrong own up to it, apologize, and move on. If the breakdown is legit, I simply tell them, "Wow! That's awesome, man!" and we move on. Once they break it down and you're hearing "+6 for Strength..." and they are 2nd level characters, you know there's something up that needs to be checked out.

As a rule, we roll dice at the time the player is asked, out in the open where I can see them, and re-roll cocked dice or dice that fall off the table.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The real problem I did have was players rolling all their attacks beforehand. You might think it would speed up combat but it really pissed me off to the point where I told them straight to roll in plain view when it was their turn.

Yeah, I've been really narked by that occasionally in the past too; the worst is when you turn to someone for their go and they say "I got a critical" and point to their dice sitting on the table in front of them. I too insist on dice being rolled on your turn and not before!

Wow! You hit on a three! That's totally sweet! Could you break your attack bonus down for me?"

We end up seeing/saying this quite a lot - often it turns out that 'yes, they really do have that high an attack bonus', occasionally someone has forgotten or misunderstood a rule (or didn't realise that we don't give 2 for 1 on 2H power attacks or something).

Cheers