Cleave and AOO: What is the problem?

[reanjr]

It has drawbacks, if you have a list of uses for this spell besides this go ahead and list them, they arent likely to be able to set off traps, mice make a lot of noise when in groups and frightened, you said nothing about them having disease or some other special attack so there isnt any, it is a summoning spell so likely takes a full round, and who knows what other limitations. against low level guys they can swarm and cause a lot of mischief, hence why it would be at least level 3 which is in line with other summon spells and at that point its offensive capabilities are lessened.

Mousewerks
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Drd 3, Rgr 3, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 2d8 summoned field mice
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell summons a 2d8 enchanted field mice. They appear where you designate and act immediately, on your turn. They may attack your opponents, but they cause no damage. If you can communicate with them, you can direct them to perform other actions.

The mice cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.

The mice have 1 HP, AC 18, Str 2, Dex 18, Con 6, Int 5, Wis 13, Cha 20. They understand (but cannot speak) the native tongue of the caster or any other language the caster knows (the caster specifies which language). They have a squeaking language of their own that they also understand.

The caster can also designate any single Craft or Perform skill during the casting. The mice have 4 ranks in this skill.

Material Component: a drop of honey and small pieces of both bread and cheese

Common uses:

- Help out with day to day light work, such as cooking, cleaning, sewing, exercising the cat. Note, the mice are limited in most tasks (with the notable exception of leading feline aerobics) due to their small size and low strength. As a rule of thumb, treat 1 lb. as the greatest weight the mice can manipulate as a team.

- They make a great addition to a picnic with that special lady friend of yours (the one with that annoying girl who follows you two around all the time, constantly mentioning things like "chastity", "purity", and "you dirty pig"). Summon them right after the birds chirp. Or maybe not; the birds might have a field day... Leave to your best judgement. Tip: Give them ranks in Perform (squeak) and have them subtly serenade her. She'll find it trmendously cute. And even cuter that they'll walk right up to you and sit in the palm of your hand.

- In conjunction with Speak with Animals, they make wonderful little spies for short term operations.

- With the correct planning, they can be used to help infiltrate a manor house. Many people (and elephants, but that situation is usually less liekly in a manor) are afriad of mice. Imagine their abject horror when the mice start circling in pack formation. You may be able to clear a room before you do some sneaky things in there.

- Entertain the children (or alternatively the drunken slobs at the local watering hole). Give them ranks in Perform (Dance) and have them bounce in rhythm to music (or a second set of mice with Perform (Squeak) for the highest levels in cuteness).

I'm sure you can come up with some more.

 

[SableWyvern]

Everyone can keep what they choose. But if they start changing the game and taking out a pile of things in order to fit that pattern then eventually game balance is going to be compromised.

Or, just as bad, someone will get a feat thinking it means something (that is what it says after all) and then the dm will say, 'nope, I changed it so it does nothing like that, sorry, try again'. Much like the dm I mentioned above who got rid of 5' steps.

That's a very tenuous argument at best, which essentially boils down to "keep AOOs and Cleave as I perceive them, or risk having your entire game descend into chaos."

There is obviously widespread disagreement on AOOs and Cleave. This is not a small group of obstinant players being contrary for its own sake, or recklessly altering rules with abandon.

It has already been agreed by most posters from both sides of the argument in this thread that allowing or dissallowing Cleave on AOOs has little to no affect on the almighty balance. Thus, game balance is not really a factor in this discussion, nor is some GM who removed 5' Steps from his game, and nor is a hypothetical GM who makes houserules on a whim and doesn't bother to inform the players.